NextGen Audio: Tempest Engine, Project Acoustics, Windows Sonic, Dolby Atmos, DTS X

DSoup said:
This is a fascinating idea. I think much would depend on how people experience audio. I would wager a massive amount of people just use their TV's average/lacklustre speakers and have never experienced good audio, whether through a separate audio system connected to their TV or a really good set of headphones.

That said, RT is not setting the world on fire either and I wonder if part of that is because game developers have got really good at faking lighting. I'd similarly wager that most people don't care about accurate (RT) lighting, but they want atmospheric lighting.

Nonetheless this kind test would be really interesting to watch observe. :yes:
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I think the opposite is true regarding ray tracing. Just seeing the popularity of the minecraft RT reviews and subsequent comments is what seems people are really thinking is amazing, same for Metro exodus, CP2077 or even the RT implementations in rift apart, gt7 etc. The SSD has gotten alot of attention too (faster loading) so does reconstruction tech (performance improvements).
 
PSman1700 said:
I think the opposite is true regarding ray tracing. Just seeing the popularity of the minecraft RT reviews and subsequent comments is what seems people are really thinking is amazing, same for Metro exodus, CP2077 or even the RT implementations in rift apart, gt7 etc.
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Minecraft lighting shaders where massive long before hardware RT was a thing. Metro Exodus got great reviews long before it supported RT. As for Ratchet & Clank, it's had great lighting effects since the PS3 versions and only one of many games supports hardware RT.

E.g. how many people more are raving abut Minecraft RT over Minecraft with advanced non-RT shaders? The same with Metro and the same with Ratchet and Clank pre-PS5?
 
DSoup said:
Minecraft lighting shaders where massive long before hardware RT was a thing. Metro Exodus got great reviews long before it supported RT. As for Ratchet & Clank, it's had great lighting effects since the PS3 versions and only one of many games supports hardware RT.

E.g. how many people more are raving abut Minecraft RT over Minecraft with advanced non-RT shaders? The same with Metro and the same with Ratchet and Clank pre-PS5?
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I do not think shader packs do match the dxr ray tracing in minecraft. Metro without its GI isnt near how it looks with rt. Rift apart got praised for its ray traced reflections.
Hard to tell on your last question, perhaps a comparison would do, but its certain that people have gone wild already three years ago about ray tracing:






Tech Focus: Ray Tracing - The Future of Gaming Graphics? - YouTube

Cyberpunk 2077 PC: What Does Ray Tracing Deliver... And Is It Worth It? - YouTube

Personal tastes aside, which is going to differ greatly anyway because one will dislike one tech over another, it has to be noted that ray tracing is pretty wild and what i'd call very intresting and popular in the gaming industry, across all platforms. Last week when i walked into a local electronics store the PS5's boot had 'Ray Tracing technology' all over its screens. Its certainly a selling point, and most likely were going to see more of it in the (near) future.
I'm glad that were moving into new rendering technologies instead of still pushing only for raw compute power, which seemed to have stagnated to begin with.
 
PSman1700 said:
I do not think shader packs do match the dxr ray tracing in minecraft. Metro without its GI isnt near how it looks with rt. Rift apart got praised for its ray traced reflections.
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I'm really confused. You seem to be arguing that RT is more accurate than faked lighting which nobody is debating. The discussion is how much average people cares about accuracy of lighting and shadows over alternative - less accurate - methods, versus equivalent advances in audio delivery. The Metro games were predicated on shadows on lighting a decade before RT was a thing.

How does linking a bunch a bunch of DF videos support this? Analysis videos exist because many differences between graphics effects are so subtle as to require a video analysis with zooming in on pixels to demonstrate the differences. If you need a DF video several minutes long to point out inaccuracies in lighting, how is meaningful to a blind test at all other than support the case that most people wouldn't notice? :???:
 
Uncharted om PS3 already used ray traced audio thanks to the SPUs. It had really great sound. With the PS4 it almost seemed like we took a step back, but now also with the binaural support etc audio is getting a lot more attention again.

So I am not sure I agree with that Audio is underrated by the developers at the moment.
 
orangpelupa said:
btw anyone have tried PS5 3d audio? does it sounds as good as advertised? https://www.playstation.com/en-id/support/hardware/3d-audio-ps5/
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Have played Returnal with (PS headset) and rift apart on a atmos speaker system. It's impressive audio-wise. What do you mean 'as good as advertised'? The link you provided says 'you can hear sounds from every direction' and 'immersive soundscapes' which is true for said games but also for 2077 and others on different platforms (atmos). Very good, better than the competition? Nah.
 
So
PSman1700 said:
Have played Returnal with (PS headset) and rift apart on a atmos speaker system. It's impressive audio-wise. What do you mean 'as good as advertised'? The link you provided says 'you can hear sounds from every direction' and 'immersive soundscapes' which is true for said games but also for 2077 and others on different platforms (atmos). Very good, better than the competition? Nah.
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So badically dts x, atmos, windows sonic, Sony 3d, aural 3d (and many more oem 3d audio), are very similar?
 
orangpelupa said:
So badically dts x, atmos, windows sonic, Sony 3d, aural 3d (and many more oem 3d audio), are very similar?
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No. Not similar at all, outside they're about audio. Some are industry standards with direct support of Audio/Video hardware with multi-speaker setups. The others generally aim towards HRTFs to fit within Stereo Headphones. Some don't work at all on multi-speaker setups.

There's a few different topics already on Beyond3D that covers a lot of this. You should give them a read.
 
orangpelupa said:
So

So badically dts x, atmos, windows sonic, Sony 3d, aural 3d (and many more oem 3d audio), are very similar?
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Depending on the implementation, yes ;) Try 2077 (atmos headphones) and rift apart back to back, neither is 'better' than the other, yet their using different underlying technologies.
 
Windows Sonic needs specific game support AFAIK. It seems intended mostly for VR to me. "Microsoft Spatial Sound". It is enabled automatically for WMR.
 
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orangpelupa said:
btw anyone have tried PS5 3d audio? does it sounds as good as advertised? https://www.playstation.com/en-id/support/hardware/3d-audio-ps5/
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With headphones it is reminiscent of Creative CMSS-3D. PS4 seemed to just put out a plain stereo signal. The PS5 on the other hand has crossfeed and HRTF so it both sounds more natural and has a good 3D downmix of multichannel audio. And it works with PS4 games as well.

I think I tried the 3D mode with TV speakers once and was as unimpressed as I've been with previous attempts to make 2 speakers sound like a multispeaker surround setup. It's an interesting curiosity but meh. And it sure isn't anything new.

Something I've recently become aware of lol is some companies like Creative actually have been making console compatible USB (or optical SPDIF with Dolby decoding) audio solutions with 3D downmix capabilities and other stuff like Super X-Fi holophonics.
 
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swaaye said:
With headphones it is reminiscent of Creative CMSS-3D. PS4 seemed to just put out a plain stereo signal. The PS5 on the other hand has crossfeed and HRTF so it both sounds more natural and has a good 3D downmix of multichannel audio. And it works with PS4 games as well.

I think I tried the 3D mode with TV speakers once and was as unimpressed as I've been with previous attempts to make 2 speakers sound like a multispeaker surround setup. It's an interesting curiosity but meh. And it sure isn't anything new.

Something I've recently become aware of lol is some companies like Creative actually have been making console compatible USB (or optical SPDIF with Dolby decoding) audio solutions with 3D downmix capabilities and other stuff like Super X-Fi holophonics.
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PS5's 3D audio is game dependant, it's not an universal feature.
 
Reynaldo said:
PS5's 3D audio is game dependant, it's not an universal feature
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It does affect ps4 games. I just pulled up Titanfall 2 and even outputting to a DS4 pad I can hear a difference between headphone 3D being enabled/disabled in the system menu. My impression is it is doing a multichannel downmix with HRTF and crossfeed. If it's disabled then it outputs the game's stereo mix.

TV speaker 3D is doing something too. Not sure about it being an improvement though! It clearly alters spatial aspects of the audio but it just sounds strange and somewhat hollow.

I am sure there are additional audio features that can be taken advantage of if a game is specifically developed for the PS5 3D audio tech though.
 
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swaaye said:
It does affect ps4 games. I just pulled up Titanfall 2 and even outputting to a DS4 pad I can hear a difference between headphone 3D being enabled/disabled in the system menu. My impression is it is doing a multichannel downmix with HRTF and crossfeed. If it's disabled then it outputs the game's stereo mix.

TV speaker 3D is doing something too. Not sure about it being an improvement though! It clearly alters spatial aspects of the audio but it just sounds strange and somewhat hollow.

I am sure there are additional audio features that can be taken advantage of if a game is specifically developed for the PS5 3D audio tech though.
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I'll take your word that it affects PS4 games, but the difference between 3D audio games and those without it is night and day. Try if you can both games I mentioned. I believe RE Village has a good implementation too, but the ones that stuck with me and impressed me are those 2 I first mentioned.

I'm not sure why they added the 3D audio through speakers options, it doesn't work at all. Sounds awful.
 
How does the 3D headphone sound on the two system compare? I have been totaly blown away by the PS5 sound but not by the XSXs, that can be due to the different games I have played on them.
Are they basically the same, or does the PS5 have a clear advantage
 
uh... on XSX you are using windows sonic or dolby atmos for headphones?

windows sonic sounds really bad IMO.

but i dont have ps5 to compare to
 
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