Nextbox: "XBOX Loop"

[liolio]

Well, fwiw, it's one reason why the intel GPU has any decent speed at all (access to cache). The problem will be seeing how this scales up to a beefier core because you'll want a lot more cache.

it's been a while since I read something on the topic,the article by David Kanter @ realworldtech where enlightening it should be worth another read (for those interested it's here).
I'm not to discuss technicality with you (or not too much) but it's a bit of an unfair statement to what Intel achieved with their GEN6 GPU. They improved a lot their architecture even though texture filtering is a weak point. I'm not sure that better performances are due to access to the L3 (only, they included a lot more fixed fuction hardware too for example). D.Kanter thinks that for now the main benefit is for Intel driver team

Spoiler

... lulz...

. Drivers have an impact of performances that's sure but I read comments about how the access to L3 is the reason behind why Intel GPU take a lesser hit than AMD counter part when rendering at higher resolution, it's unclear as ceteris paribus Intel memory controller provide more effective bandwidth to begin with.
In regard to scaling it looks like Intel is paving the way for future improvements with Ivy Bridge as the GPU with have it's own share of the L3, if I get it right they plan to connect more of their "data ports" to this part of the L3 without creating traffic on the chip main ring bus. Still we don't know how much L3 the GPU will embark. Now SnB GPU can take as much as 2MB of the L3 which is indeed a lot (even though we don't know if it's happening during games), I would be surprised if Intel goes with this much L3 for IB.

The goal of this post is subliminal, if I see a B3D test of the Intel GEN6 GPU it will have succeed
More seriously, I was reading stuffs on SoC and find this interesting as an example of CPU GPU integration and how they can share data in a proper implementation (sad but it looks like AMD lag significantly behind both ARM and Intel, it may become more obvious once those too have direct compute5 enable part).

 

[AlphaWolf]

Wii is an indicator that you can compete with ubnique experiences. In the same way people are buying less powerful tablets over PCs because of the advantages or novelty. Every console next-gen will have motion gaming, so if that's all you're offering, you ahve to compete on the bread-and-butter performance and price. But there's still a chance of someone offering something unique, a 'disruptive move'. A console that you can use as a tablet for media and internet access, take round a friend's house and play your games including motion gaming, and all the other options, is offering a different experience to a standard console and can compete with that rather than just power and price. It wouldn't be for everyone, but neither was Wii and that did very well for Nintendo. I reckon a tablet console would find a very healthy market, and it could be operated in parallel with an existing standard console for added value and revenue. An XB tablet would give MS way to enter this tough market with a strong brand and build on their entertainment business, although I think MS would be the least likely to try that given a historical lack of huge success in their hardware - they'll probably stick with a conventional console that they've been successful with this gen and let other hardware companies worry about producing and launching Windows tablets.

Tablet owners buy tablets to complement their PC experience, not to replace it.

 

[AzBat]

Tablet owners buy tablets to complement their PC experience, not to replace it.

I don't think you can state that unequivocally. I think there is some anecdotal evidence that there are some people that have done exactly that.

Tommy McClain

 

[liolio]

I don't think you can state that unequivocally. I think there is some anecdotal evidence that there are some people that have done exactly that.

Tommy McClain

Indeed and the intensive to do could grow fast. If next gen systems were to be release soon once I reach US I would go with a tablet and a console and pass on PC altogether. I may not do that no new system is in sight I don't see my self spending money again on the same console, etc. I may plug an average GPU in PC and all it day. But fundamentally I don't need a PC at home.

 

[AzBat]

Wouldn't you think it strange if someone didn't release a tabler-console? It strikes me as the most obvious product for someone wanting to compete in a less direct fashion than yet-another-box-under-the-TV. If we don't see a tablet console in two years, I'll lose all faith in the world's product designers!

LOL, I agree, it would be strange to not see a tablet console. I'm also not exactly convinced Microsoft is the one that will do it. Maybe they will surprise us & do both a tablet & standard console, but I find it unlikely.

Tommy McClain

 

[rpg.314]

Don't expect prices higher than mobile devices? Smartphones are more expensive than consoles ever have been, the best selling tablets are >$500 and they are actually cheaper than the phones.

And why would next gen be the last console gen? There will always be a place for consoles because most people won't want to buy an extra phone just for playing games on when they can buy more powerful hardware for that purpose that will be always connected that doesn't tie up their phone when they want to play.

Everybody is going to have a phone and a tablet/notebook with them 5 years down the line. Consoles will be an indulgence. So they need to fit into a impulse buy price point.

Also, phones cost a lot more than consoles, but their purchase is baked in since they do la lot of essential things. Consoles are for leisure only.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Everybody is going to have a phone and a tablet/notebook with them 5 years down the line. Consoles will be an indulgence. So they need to fit into a impulse buy price point.

Anything gaming is an indulgence, a smartphone is an indulgence. Consoles don't need to be an impulse buy, there's plenty of people that plan their gaming/entertainment budget. The cost of a box for that purpose isn't exactly high (less than $10 a month if you bought a launch ps3 and quite a bit less if you bought a launch 360).

Also, phones cost a lot more than consoles, but their purchase is baked in since they do la lot of essential things. Consoles are for leisure only.

Yes consoles are for leisure only, and that's why they are less expensive and better suited to the purpose. Fixed special purpose hardware doesn't automatically get replaced because there is a product that can perform it's functions to some degree. If you're trying to use your phone as a home console, it's usefulness as a phone is diminished (or do you have a 2nd smartphone for taking calls?).

I don't think you can state that unequivocally. I think there is some anecdotal evidence that there are some people that have done exactly that.

I think you'll find a lot more anecdotal evidence of people who just find themselves hauling around an extra device that they find convenient for various tasks but doesn't replace their PC. I love my tablet, but it can't replace a physical keyboard and larger display if to get real work done. (and before anyone comes up with this... if you have a monitor and keyboard you're connecting it to or some docking station... you might as well just have a PC anyway.)

 

[rpg.314]

Anything gaming is an indulgence, a smartphone is an indulgence. Consoles don't need to be an impulse buy, there's plenty of people that plan their gaming/entertainment budget. The cost of a box for that purpose isn't exactly high (less than $10 a month if you bought a launch ps3 and quite a bit less if you bought a launch 360).

Smartphones are not an indulgence. The value gained (browsing, email, gps, basic camera etc., not to mention the gazillion apps that add value in their own niche way) in going from a $30 phone to a $100 phone is enough to make all phones smart 5 years down the line. So the next consoles are being designed with this in mind.

A smartphone is a "PC" that just happens to be a good gaming device.

Yes consoles are for leisure only, and that's why they are less expensive and better suited to the purpose. Fixed special purpose hardware doesn't automatically get replaced because there is a product that can perform it's functions to some degree. If you're trying to use your phone as a home console, it's usefulness as a phone is diminished (or do you have a 2nd smartphone for taking calls?).

No, you just pause your game and take your call.

I think you'll find a lot more anecdotal evidence of people who just find themselves hauling around an extra device that they find convenient for various tasks but doesn't replace their PC. I love my tablet, but it can't replace a physical keyboard and larger display if to get real work done. (and before anyone comes up with this... if you have a monitor and keyboard you're connecting it to or some docking station... you might as well just have a PC anyway.)

A tablet with a dock is potentially mobile. A desktop is not and a laptop much less so.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Tablet owners buy tablets to complement their PC experience, not to replace it.

I wasn't suggesting they were. But they are buying tablets instead of more powerful PCs. Their 2, 3, 4 year old PC can still be used for photo editing and Office, so doesn't need upgrading. A tablet offers a more laid-back way to browse the web, Facebook, work as a portable movie player, and such. Hence dollars that would be spent on PCs if tablets didn't exist are being spent on tablets. A tablet console could do the same, attracting buyers for the alternatives it offers in preference over the better performance of a conventional console. And even better if the same tablet works alongside a conventional console, as you get the best of all worlds similar to selling PCs and tablets: Those who want a console buy one; those who want a tablet buy one; those who buy a console anyway can be convinced to buy into the compatible tablet too; those who want a tablet and social gaming can get one instead of a tablet and other console; etc.

No-one creating a tablet console would miss out on a vary obvious way to differentiate from other tablets. It'll happen anyway with tablet gaining TV out and bluetoothed peripherals, but Sony or MS could make a proper experience tied in with their gaming ecosystems and really corner that market.

 

[dobwal]

Im starting to believe that if this rumor has any validity its because its describing the next generation of Kinect and not the "720" or "Ten".

MS supposedly removed the main processor out of Kinect even though a tear down showed what some have surmised is a Marvell PXA 168 applications processor, which is an ARM based arch.

http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4210757/Teardown--Kinect-has-processor-after-all
http://www.marvell.com/application-processors/armada-100/assets/pxa_168_pb.pdf.

Microsoft is said to work on a specially developed ARM-processor in conjunction with two partners, and outside of the ARM CPUs it will integrate processors for dedicated graphics, physics, AI, sound, networking, cryptography and different sensors.

That makes sense if you're talking about Kinect but exactly what kind of sensors does a Xbox console needs outside of Kinect being intergrated into the console itself.

 

[Barbarian]

Everybody is going to have a phone and a tablet/notebook with them 5 years down the line. Consoles will be an indulgence. So they need to fit into a impulse buy price point.

Also, phones cost a lot more than consoles, but their purchase is baked in since they do la lot of essential things. Consoles are for leisure only.

But that only proves that integrating a console into a tablet is the way to go.
The same way the iPhone is killing the traditional portable gaming (3DS/PSP), a decently powerful tablet could destroy any traditional console even at a higher price point!

 

[rpg.314]

But that only proves that integrating a console into a tablet is the way to go.
The same way the iPhone is killing the traditional portable gaming (3DS/PSP), a decently powerful tablet could destroy any traditional console even at a higher price point!

Look at iOS dev agreement and Apple's behavior towards it's devs.

An iOS device is a console in all but name and a few superficial technical details.

 

[AlphaWolf]

yes a console that costs $50 to connect to a TV and has crap controls and ps1 level software.

 

[bgassassin]

So the new rumor is stating that Loop is the software side of the new console. That would have me to believe that it's XboxTV. If true then I can see it similar to Xbox1 where Live was released one year after the console release. Ten is said to be the hardware so based on that we'd see the new console in 2012 and XboxTV in 2013.

 

[AzBat]

So the new rumor is stating that Loop is the software side of the new console.

Source? Only could find this in French...

http://www.xboxygen.com/Xbox-720/Nouvelle-Xbox-CES-2012-et-GPU-ATI

Doesn't look very credible. But then again the same could have been said for MSNerd too.

Tommy McClain

 

[bgassassin]

Source? Only could find this in French...

http://www.xboxygen.com/Xbox-720/Nouvelle-Xbox-CES-2012-et-GPU-ATI

Doesn't look very credible. But then again the same could have been said for MSNerd too.

Tommy McClain

That's the one. The question I have is if this is legit or just someone who took what we already have heard and created a rumor of their own from it. I'll humor it till we hear something to discredit it.

 

[Rangers]

I am quite sure all these rumors are fake. Next Xbox is coming no sooner than 2013 and is based on an IBM CPU and an AMD GPU imo until proven otherwise.

 

[AzBat]

The 2012 rumor won't surprise me. I've always had a feeling it would be released then. 2013 always felt too late. As for rest of the rumors, no idea. Nothing this generation has panned out like I thought. I'm sure the same could be said for the next generation. LOL

Tommy McClain

 

[Rangers]

The 2012 rumor won't surprise me. I've always had a feeling it would be released then. 2013 always felt too late.

2012 is becoming more and more impossible. As I've pointed out several times, Wii U is likely to actually finally get around to launching in late 12. Maybe September Japan and Nov USA That's with plenty known and many announced Wii U titles.

Expecting Next Xbox to be there alongside, with zero known and zero announced or even credibly rumored titles, is increasing crazyness with each passing day as we near 2012 in 1.5 months.

We had Xbox 360 credible spec leaks as early as February 2004 (though my link is from April 2004) http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/04/27/xbox_2_architecture/ . Following the same timeline and knowing MS is a leaky ship in a way that language barrier-ed Sony and Nintendo never will be, for a late 012 launch we would have needed to see detailed spec leaks in early 11.

The latest NPD's just add more to it, at this point MS may never launch another system as 360 keeps selling better and better at very profitable price points.

 

[TheD]

I have no idea how popular they are, but you can get quite a few FPS boost for a low cost by installing one.

No you can't and it is not low cost at all.

The X-FI chip is very, very old. It is built on 130nm, has 53 million transistors and runs at 400Mhz, nothing it could do could not be done without a problem on a CPU (they even sell software for some motherboards that emulate EAX 5 and the like in software).