Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [pre E3 2019]

[Megadrive1988]

A couple of questions / thoughts

Do we know if Arcturus is the codename for the "Next Gen" post-Navi GPU architecture, or could Arcturus be a codename for specific Navi GPU?

What about Eurogamer / DF's estimate that the performance window for next-gen console GPUs (or PS5) could be 11 to 15 TFlops.

I think the absolute bare minimum RAM configuration should be 18 GB GDDR6 on a 384-bit interface.

 

[Metal_Spirit]

Acording to the person who gave us the codename Arcturus, it is not the next gen codename. Its a specific GPU codename.
It it is Navi or not, is not clear to me.
Yet, since Gonzalo is an APU with Navi, and its a codename with the same structure (person name), I’m beliving it is Navi.

 

[HBRU]

I'm sure Sony has an unified memory pool for GPU and CPU because they need a structure similar to Ps4 (or ps4pro better) for BC... but not so sure for Microsoft... if they want a small server that can also run games or a console that can work also as server I think a working lower energy state may be interesting for them... Not an idle state... A working state. A silent state but working.

 

[anexanhume]

Bullshit.

Hint: eDram is dead.

MRAM it is!

 

[MrFox]

Redundant rows are used in DRAM. I haven't turned up the specifics of current DRAM manufacturers' methods so far, but there's a range of research papers on implementing fault recovery and it's referenced in Wikipedia going back to comparatively smaller array sizes than we have presently.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_random-access_memory#Row_and_column_redundancy

That 50% figure sounds very low, especially for consumer DRAM with spot prices in the single digits. The data is confidential, but the last time (admittedly long ago) I saw a rough comparison between IC types, DRAM was near they top of the acceptable yield hierarchy, significantly over 90% or 95%. DRAM is highly redundant and regular, and it's a mass-produced commodity made by multiple manufacturers.

Thanks, I should have looked it up. The 50% "industry average" figure must have been from really old sources like the 90's or taken out of context.

https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/81087/858010748-MIT.pdf

DRAM vendors typically raise a product's yield level from around 40 to 50 percent to 80 to 90 percent since the beginning of a mass production of a DRAM product.

 

[Karmaprof]

Its look like Fake , the Devkit of the Xbox One X has 24 Gbyte Ram , and 12 Gbyte ram in the Retail unit. So Scarlett has lower Memory than the X? Make no sense , doesent matter if Scarlett has ultrafast SSD drives....

 

[vipa899]

https://www.unilad.co.uk/gaming/son...elopment-focus-to-playstation-5-insider-says/

No idea if true or not, but if then the hardware must be close to completion.

 

[MrFox]

It's all about credibility. True story, I went to a private open bar wrap party (as they usually are) from [redacted] for the upcoming game [redacted] last weekend and developers were talking about next gen. I learned very little but....

Me: Thank god for that launch date, I'm I right guys??
Mike: Uh yeah it's gonna be announced in sixty nine months...
Me: And those specs! Right?
Mike: Meh, at least one of them.
John: Who the fuck are you, you don't work for [redacted]! Security!!
Me: Sorry, wrong party, thanks for the beers!

So I learned one of them specs is meh, and it's not launching for another sixty nine months. That's like over five years, november 2024.

 

[HBRU]

6 / 9 months or 69 months ?!?

 

[HBRU]

Zen2 ...

https://www.ultragamerz.com/500-nex...-outperforms-1700-intel-cpu-leaks-and-rumors/

 

[JasonLD]

Zen2 ...

https://www.ultragamerz.com/500-nex...-outperforms-1700-intel-cpu-leaks-and-rumors/

Something that looks too good to be true, often ends up being not true.

 

[Karmaprof]

Whether it's 8, 10 or 12 TF, that's not terribly exciting. It's okay, but it's really just a notch on the slider or small percentage increase in the P.

60 hz, ray acceleration, blistering int8 performance for AI, fast CPU for massively populated worlds and scaled up sandboxes ... that's something to get excited about.

IMO.

Yes we need better Physics , destructible environments . And more Colors. Many Games has awful Colors , outwashed pastell Tones . So we need more saturated , brillant and vivid Colors in Games for a better CGI look. And i dont think this is only an Artwork problem. Higher quality Shadows , i hate the pixelated Shadows in so many Games. Look at Watch Dogs 2 running over Nvidia Gameworks , the Shadows looks very clean and fine. Maybe FP64 can solve the Problem.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

So we need more saturated , brillant and vivid Colors in Games for a better CGI look. And i dont think this is only an Artwork problem.

What technology leads to brighter, more colourful games? Have you tried turning up the saturation on your TV...?

 

[Karmaprof]

What technology leads to brighter, more colourful games? Have you tried turning up the saturation on your TV...?

Yes i do , it can help a little bit in some Games , some not. Nvidia has some tools i have heard like "digital Vibrance" for more intense Colors. Lets see how will be the look of next Genration Games on Ps5 , Scarlett. Also the new Generation of Tvs with mabe 12/16 Bit Panels(actual Tvs have 10Bit) , the further Development of HDR.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Display tech can make a difference - my QD monitor has amazing colours especially the oranges and reds. Wider colour gamut can help with some colours. But really, it's art choice and next-gen consoles can't really do anything. Monitor settings like 'Digital Vibrance' are just funky saturation adjustments.

What's wrong with the colours in Fortnite or Overwatch or any Mario game that they aren't colourful enough and need better technology?

 

[HBRU]

I've played Borderlands 2 with the HDR+ of my Samsung... Really great colors digitally created by the tv to mime the HDR into the game.

 

[JPT]

Why? Because it's unlikely that module exists yet?

Why? 802.11ax on a premium console launching in 2020 doesn't seem implausible to me, especially since the console will be stuck with that spec for some years after launch. I don't think the "leak" is credible, but that didn't really stand out to me as a reason why.

When has Sony or MS gone with a new wifi standard. They where 2.4 for a long time etc. also to my knowledge neither Sony or MS have used any of the 3 big wifi chip vendors (Broadcom, Quantenna & Qualcom) always some lesser known brands. Only people to my knowledge having anything 802.11ax yet are the big 3.

The standard does not get ratified until Q3 2019, or it's scheduled to, it can be delayed again. Anything released before that is pre-standard and you have no guarantee except for the vendors promise that they will be compliant with the final standard.

But mainly those chips will probably be too expensive and shiny and I doubt ready for mass production even in early/mid 2020.

Laptops and phones are starting to come this year, I guess MWC in Barcelona will list ax or Wifi6 devices in bundles, but with shady release dates.
And finally why put in ax that will most likely not be a benefit for most users before 2-3 years down the road. There are many cool features in ax, but you need a Wifi router that supports it and even worse, some of the featuresare not mandatory ie will only be available on enterprise gear. Some might get pushed to a Wave 2 release. And to get the best effect you need more people to be on ax, ie not just you, but the majority in your high-rise building.

All of these are my guesses / speculation, but I would not have put on ax/wifi6 in a console that releases 2020, based on the cost/benefit alone.

 

[HBRU]

What you mean? The thing is BC and FC ... Those will be sure present in both Sony and Ms new gen consoles. At least till PS5 only titles will be released... That will happen when ps5 is widely diffused... So also forward "compatibility" is a must. Who knows when... We discussed actually that maybe PS5 can be only backward compatible with PRO titles... Will see. No reason to not think also PS6 (or PS5 pro call it how you want) will follow same steps here I suppose.

 

[Karmaprof]

Display tech can make a difference - my QD monitor has amazing colours especially the oranges and reds. Wider colour gamut can help with some colours. But really, it's art choice and next-gen consoles can't really do anything. Monitor settings like 'Digital Vibrance' are just funky saturation adjustments.

What's wrong with the colours in Fortnite or Overwatch or any Mario game that they aren't colourful enough and need better technology?

Oh nothing wrong here , good examples from you. I like the Colors of Mario Odyssey a lot. But i was tired about many Games with these grey and brown scaled Colors or outwashed green Vegetation/Grasses. Maybe its 70% an Artwork thing and 30% a technical thing. Look , in the Specsheet of the old Psone is listet that the Gpu can display 16,8 Million colors, but there is no Games with such Coloramount , because the Framebuffer of the Psone is too small , today we have bigger Framebuffers , Colorcompression , higher Memorybandwidth, and the Games are today more Colorful than in older Consolegeneration. The Question is did we reach the Limit or is there more Room for more and different Colorstyles.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You're understanding is very wrong. It's 100% artwork. If any game on a platform can be colourful, all games can be, but the designers choose for them not to be. 16.8 million colours is the total number of colours and shades possible by representing each of the RGB channels by a byte, so 256 values to the power of 3. These are enough colours to represent a large range of colours and shades, and generally is good enough to represent most photos. You can use primary, solid colours, or slightly adjust them, or completely desaturate them.

The same desaturation is used a lot in modern TV and film to make things 'gritty' and 'dark'.