Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [post GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Proelite, Mar 16, 2020.

  1. chris1515

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    [​IMG]

    Find it here it seems Direct Storage is using a new file I/O Too. Old NTFS will not do the job. ;)
     
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  2. Love_In_Rio

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    mmm, IO logic runs in cpu...not hardware block. But decompression too?.
    Something tells me that XSX is all stock RDNA2 but they added fancy names to software solutions all around: sfs, velocity...
    As @More_law_is_dead says they even stole the thunder of virtual memory from Sony being the first to announce it, when with the io and flash controller they have wont be able to move data to gpu fast enough.
    The problem here is the lack of a good communication marketing from Sony. They have to clearly sell their advantages. It doesnt cost much to say a Naughty Dog ICE team developer to write a blog article today, not tomorrow, like the one from Matt Philips but concrete to PS5 architecture, explaining clearly the architecture advantages...
     
    #802 Love_In_Rio, Mar 23, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
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  3. PSman1700

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    True, but it's probably going to cost them more to try to get Rockstar say the same thing ;) Likewise, it won't be much of a problem getting an MS dev writing a blog on how the XSX SSD might actually perform very close to the PS5 SSD.
     
  4. Love_In_Rio

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    We dont need Rockstar, i want Sony itself to explain what Jason and others say are hearing, that the architecture is ultra efficient and why. They have more L2?, cache scrubbers makes shaders dont hit cache misses?, the cpu accessing RAM doesnt steal bandwidth from GPU ? (a problem PS4 Garlic and Onion buses had...), etc. Explaining that is not the job from journalists or devs, but from Sony itself...
     
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  5. PSman1700

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    If you want an independent view on things, i recommend you Digital Foundry, they have no stake in lifting one platform over another. Some of them are active on forums aswell.
     
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  6. BRiT

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    None of these things matter yet. It will be far easier to explain to the lay person by showing them games. I get why journalists are writing about it now, it's their job, but it's only read by the few of the enthusiasts. Normal people dont care until the systems are up for sale and then it will come down to the price and which games are offered. Even then, some of the more engaged gamers wont upgrade until a year later as the soo est they can since they're having to deal with family budgets.

    What we're talking about now with next-gen narratives will likely change a few times over before the general public even cares.
     
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  7. Betanumerical

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    Isn't this a inherent problem in pretty much any shared bus scenario?, you cannot have two users of the bus and they both get all the bandwidth.
     
  8. Love_In_Rio

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    Well, in the net the backlash from no enthusiasts is happening because they read,many times uninformed or biased, articles from enthusiasts. Thats Sonys fault. They announced specs second and with worse figures, so they dont let their enthusiasts explain why their approach is a good one... And devs are angry because things are not well explained, so, they will wait to September to make another DF article?.
     
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  9. Love_In_Rio

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    Then 448 GB/s is too little bandwidth. If they have a solution for this they should explain it.
     
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  10. Betanumerical

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    Its no different to the XSX no?, the only difference is that the slow pool on the XSX that the CPU will use is much slower than the max bus speed.
     
  11. Jubei

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    Do they? It seems like some people had very high expectations for the PS5 and now the only saving grace is some sort of "secret sauce" that hasnt been explained yet

    I doubt it was their intention to showcase the PS5 through that tech preview. Most likely they had a show prepared but Covid-19 hampered those plans and the video was gonna be leaked anyway. Might aswell be first
     
  12. iroboto

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    IO is always done in CPU. Somewhere you need to make the calls to hardware. This is no different than DirectX 11 being a CPU hog to drive calls to the graphics card. In this scenario it's just reduction in overhead calls for IO.
    Decompression is done in hardware.
     
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  13. JPT

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    RT is the least interesting thing to me, it gives better graphics and sound from my understanding, but its not what I want. I want to game experiences, what ever that might be.
    FPS is tiresom, TPS the same, I want something new and fresh. What that is, no IDEA :D


    I wonder if BC is worth the price, 100K hours, is a lot of money.
     
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  14. PSman1700

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    The SSD is faster in PS5, no secret sauce there. It is said to make up for XSX's faster cpu , more powerfull gpu (both fixed rate) and higher BW.
    Secret sauce would be on MS's side, (Bcpack), where supposedly they can mitigate the difference in read speeds, by having a improved texture compression and to reduce the amount of data loaded. More on that from MS later on.
    As for audio, also there, we know much too little to judge on that. Both have 3d audio and it's all in hardware, both wont stress the cpu much, and both are said to be able to do 'hundreds of simultanious sources at once'.

    Besides the raw figures/specs we got, it's impossible to judge on things we have not been provided with yet. Some speculate the OS can be loaded from the SSD in it's enteritity, amongst other things.
     
  15. Betanumerical

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    I can imagine a lot of the OS could be offloaded to the SSD, but honestly, there will still have to a lot of buffers, code, maps, etc in memory just to make the kernel and underlying functionality and hardware work. it would probably be possible to reduce the reservation to maybe around 1.5 - 2.5GB and still have reasonable responsiveness and services.
     
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  16. Love_In_Rio

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    Well, dont buy the ssds and bcpack thing and neither the sound one. In those departments there is no contest, they went all in in them. The problem (for Sony) is the difference in ALL the remaining specs.
     
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  17. PSman1700

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    Well, like i said, i can't judge on those two as we know too little about it.
     
  18. Betanumerical

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    Its probably an extension of the BC line of texture compression algorithms (as seen with BC1-BC7), I would not expect it to anywhere make up the raw bandwidth but will increase compression in certain scenarios depending on what algorithms MS decides to implement.
     
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  19. DSoup

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    I/O should never be done by the CPU. You may need a CPU (an application) or other hardware device to initiate a transfer but ideally you don't want the CPU involved again until the CPU needs to utilising some of the data. Back when 8-bit CPUs were cutting edge the CPU mostly handled I/O, literally being interrupted every byte or series to bytes to move data from a buffer-space into RAM. I/O should not work like that any more. DirectX API calls are not strictly related to I/O though so maybe you're referring to something else!
     
  20. mrcorbo

    mrcorbo Foo Fighter
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    The filesystem?
     
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