Next Generation Hardware Speculation with a Technical Spin [post E3 2019, pre GDC 2020] [XBSX, PS5]

[chris1515]

Link for 2016? Both points is new info for me.
Sounds like an expensive endeavor here.
More power + licensing out for RT tech could be fairly pricey here. I'm not going to rule it out, but this sounds significantly more expensive.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/carlovloet

He was a lead software developer at Caustic graphics and after Imgtec Power VR when they bought Caustic graphics.

EDIT: I find his profile googling Sony interactive entertainment photon mapping

 

[iroboto]

Yea, looking at his resume; he is a driver/API writer in his time at Caustic.
I'm not sure that means they are running PowerVR for PS5 (I don't put much stock in this thinking). They could need him for a variety of tasks, but he appears to be the VR team here.

If they ran PowerVR, I would have expected some sort of 'public announcement' about it soon. Imagination would love to have their stock go up

 

[Deleted member 13524]

If they ran PowerVR, I would have expected some sort of 'public announcement' about it soon. Imagination would love to have their stock go up

In licensing deals, you usually get the choice to pay X to use the IP or X+Y to use the IP in secret.

I don't have an opinion on this. I'm just saying it's possible Sony is using PowerVR tech and that will never come to public.

 

[chris1515]

In licensing deals, you usually get the choice to pay X to use the IP or X+Y to use the IP in secret.

I don't have an opinion on this. I'm just saying it's possible Sony is using PowerVR tech and that will never come to public.

if they use power vr I suppose it will be public after the PS5 reveal.

 

[bgroovy]

Relevant to the last couple pages next-gen FPS discussion?: According to this Gears 5 tech presentation they made an "educated bet" that
'60fps is the new "base line". Line in the sand early.'

That game still runs at 30fps in single player on base hardware.

 

[Miniature Kaiju]

It's worth a mention that ImgTec announced fairly recently that they're open to licensing their VR tech, and that's something companies sometimes do right after they've started licensing it to someone.

 

[BRiT]

I suspect the difference is only in what and how the software libraries expose RayTracing, Microsoft DXR vs Sony GnmRT / GnmxRT or whatever Sony ends up calling it.

 

[iroboto]

In licensing deals, you usually get the choice to pay X to use the IP or X+Y to use the IP in secret.

I don't have an opinion on this. I'm just saying it's possible Sony is using PowerVR tech and that will never come to public.

Like rebrand of someone else's technology by paying additional licensing fees?

 

[BRiT]

Like rebrand of someone else's technology by paying additional licensing fees?

Yup. The same options exist with Forum software, with vBulliten you could have private label that would remove the "powered by" labeling.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

It was a smart-aleck retort that somehow 30fps magically goes away because of next-generation console hardware. Which is obviously false, since the vast majority of PCs (high-end ones as well), still have problems maintaining a solid 30fps in many modern day games, and even some prior generation titles.

And regardless of platform, the vast majority of developers will still choose to push these next-generation platforms towards more visual splendor (eye-candy) than chasing a certain framerate (e.g., 60fps, 120fps, etc.) which would require more hardware resources and developer time on achieving. If anything, developers will be clamoring to use the more beefier next-generation CPUs towards improving AI or additional world simulation assets.

Eh? I haven't played a game on PC at 30 FPS in over 10 years. And I don't even have the best hardware. It really isn't hard to basically lock your frame rate at 60 FPS.

Everything I play is at least 2560x1440 or 2560x1600 at 60 FPS. Even brand new games. And that's with a 1070 which isn't even high end anymore.

Regards,
SB

 

[Shortbread]

Eh? I haven't played a game on PC at 30 FPS in over 10 years. And I don't even have the best hardware. It really isn't hard to basically lock your frame rate at 60 FPS.

Everything I play is at least 2560x1440 or 2560x1600 at 60 FPS. Even brand new games. And that's with a 1070 which isn't even high end anymore.

Regards,
SB

And I said...

I wasn't talking about PC games being artificially capped at 30fps. I specifically stated, that I have seen high-end PC hardware not even maintain certain modern and prior generation PC titles at 30fps. Modern titles such as Control and RDR2 and older titles such as GTA V and Witcher 3 can (does) drop framerates under 30fps for sustained periods of time, even on modern 2018-2019 high-end AMD/Intel CPUs and AMD/Nvidia GPUs.

Point being, 30fps gaming isn't going anywhere anytime soon, especially with the next-generation of consoles.

FYI: And by high-end PC gaming I mean, unrestricted eye-candy settings that are inclusive of maxed LoD, draw distances and density settings running at 4K.

Once again, that was never my point. But let me make it clear once again, expect many 30fps games on next-generation systems.

 

[Mihailjones]

Eh? I haven't played a game on PC at 30 FPS in over 10 years. And I don't even have the best hardware. It really isn't hard to basically lock your frame rate at 60 FPS.

Everything I play is at least 2560x1440 or 2560x1600 at 60 FPS. Even brand new games. And that's with a 1070 which isn't even high end anymore.

Regards,
SB

And what is PCs power & price limit?

There isnt one, but consoles have max limit for thermals and price.

Next gen could run games on 60fps, but why would they do it when 30fps is 100% enough for console gaming as many gens have shown it.

I'd rather play 30fps game with ultra details and maybe more physics than 60fps with lower details&physics. And 1080p would still be enough.

4k/60hz as baseline = isnt that like 6-8x more demanding than 1080/30? = Most of new gen perf wasted on useless shit because some spoiled by 120hz PC people have too low skills and ability to get adjusted 30fps.

If 30fps would not be enough, nobody would play console games. But they sell millions = it is 100% playable for most

 

[Shortbread]

And what is PCs power & price limit?

There isnt one, but consoles have max limit for thermals and price.

Next gen could run games on 60fps, but why would they do it when 30fps is 100% enough for console gaming as many gens have shown it.

I'd rather play 30fps game with ultra details and maybe more physics than 60fps with lower details&physics. And 1080p would still be enough.

4k/60hz as baseline = isnt that like 6-8x more demanding than 1080/30? = Most of new gen perf wasted on useless shit because some spoiled by 120hz PC people have too low skills and ability to get adjusted 30fps.

If 30fps would not be enough, nobody would play console games. But they sell millions = it is 100% playable for most

If anything, we're going to see more 30fps Triple-A titles on the next-generation systems.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

And I said...

Sure, all things that are far FAR beyond what consoles are capable of.

My point is that current generation console settings are easy to exceed while at the same time running at 60 FPS or higher. And all while using midrange PC hardware or even lower.

This generation has already seen some formerly 30 FPS only console developers either move to 60 FPS or offer high framerate options in addition to 30 FPS, including some Japanese developers.

I respect your opinion that the industry will either stick to 30 FPS or double down on 30 FPS, but I believe we'll see far more 60 FPS titles on next generation hardware. Especially if developers offer gamers the option of going 30 or 60 FPS.

Regards,
SB

 

[Mskx]

Next gen could run games on 60fps, but why would they do it when 30fps is 100% enough for console gaming as many gens have shown it.

I'd rather play 30fps game with ultra details and maybe more physics than 60fps with lower details&physics. And 1080p would still be enough.

4k/60hz as baseline = isnt that like 6-8x more demanding than 1080/30? = Most of new gen perf wasted on useless shit because some spoiled by 120hz PC people have too low skills and ability to get adjusted 30fps.

Why do anything better? Why not just keep making games for Xbox 360?

And if anything is "useless shit" it's better graphics, it's just making the pictures prettier.

Higher framerates on the other hand actually makes real, substantive change to how the games play and how responsive they are, reduce input latency and so on.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

If 30fps would not be enough, nobody would play console games. But they sell millions = it is 100% playable for most

Sure most gamers "tolerate" 30 FPS, but they don't necessarily enjoy 30 FPS. Meaning that if they had the option to play the game at 60 FPS they would choose that option in a heartbeat. Obviously not ALL console gamers, but a significant number of them already comment how X game would be so much better if it was 60 FPS instead of 30.

While Twitch isn't representative of all gamers, a common complaint I see about PS4 exclusives is that they are only 30 FPS. But that even with that limitation they are still some of the best games released this generation. And then it's almost always repeated how they would be so much better if they were 60 FPS. Heard this a lot with HZD, GOW (2018) and recently Death Stranding.

Interestingly you don't see that complaint about the MS exclusives currently because the Streamers just opt to play them on PC instead of XBO because they can play them at 60 FPS and they can afford to have multiple consoles and PCs.

Regards,
SB

 

[DavidGraham]

Everything I play is at least 2560x1440 or 2560x1600 at 60 FPS. Even brand new games. And that's with a 1070 which isn't even high end anymore.

Make that 4K with Max settings and Max AA and several demanding games will drop to 30 or 40fps even on a 2080Ti.

 

[Shortbread]

I respect your opinion that the industry will either stick to 30 FPS or double down on 30 FPS, but I believe we'll see far more 60 FPS titles on next generation hardware. Especially if developers offer gamers the option of going 30 or 60 FPS.

Regards,
SB

I respect yours as well. As I see it, Triple-A developers aren't going to spend a ton of system resources on hitting a framerate that they can't visually or easily sell during a gaming show (E3) or through published images. Simply put, its easier for Triple-A developers to provide maximum eye-candy on representing their next-generation games. And if RT is actually used heavily throughout the next-generation, then yes, we're going to see lots of 30fps games.

But of course, twitch-shooters, board strategy and fighting games more than likely will hit their 60fps target frames.

 

[Shortbread]

Make that 4K with Max settings and Max AA and several demanding games will drop to 30 or 40fps even on a 2080Ti.

The reason why I'm waiting next year for the 3080 series of cards.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Make that 4K with Max settings and Max AA and several demanding games will drop to 30 or 40fps even on a 2080Ti.

Sure if you max out the settings but at that point, that's your choice. You can still easily do 4k/60 at significantly higher than console settings, however.

Out of my circle of gamer friends and the Twitch Streamers that I watch, and their audiences (20k+ audiences for some of them). The vast majority of them game at 60 FPS or higher, even in the newest games like RDR 2.

This forum is one of the only places where I actually see a PC gamer that opts to go 30 FPS.

Regards,
SB