Next Generation: CPU future...

ROG27

Regular
I'm going to qualify this thread as my opion, first and foremost. :D It's also in response the the great amount of RSX vs. Xenos threads I've been seeing lately.

I've observed few things over the past console generation with regards to games tailored to architectually different machines. The thing that really sparked this thread is many of PS2's amazingly cinematic, heavlily CPU-reliant games that have been produced over the past 2 years, namely God of War, SotC, MGS3, DMC3, etc. The ability to use a graphically weak machine like the PS2 with it's lack of any shader capability and tiny pool of RAM and make games that look better moving than games utilizing the most cutting edge PC technology says alot for how graphics are more of an artistically dependent matter and less a technically limited matter on the GPU end. If anything, a CPU-centric machine churning out fluid animations, natural transitions between said animations, and good collision detection running at a high framerate, coupled with classy artistic style, makes for games that more closely resemble prerendered movie visuals than games with stiff animation and bad collision detection coming from a more GPU-centric configuration that spits out a pretty picture in a dead environment.

What I'm getting at is that I'd rather see less sophisticated in-game assets move and interact in a more sophisticated manner with a vibrant, living world than technically sophisticated models, shaders, textures, landscapes. In screenshots, most people eyes pick up on good art before technical sophistication of models, anyway. And in motion, good art, animation, etc. are really the things that matter on a visual level. The next logical progression from here to add meaningful interactive elements on a visual level would be to establish good physics-based animation and simulation and include smarter AI, all being heavily CPU-reliant activities. Thus, I think the public's expectation of next generation gameplay and visuals (without them even realizing it) is a more naturally flowing game, not a game with just more complex models and environments. Programming on the CPU end should be the focus of progress in this next generation, with GPU programming being secondary. Otherwise, the uncanny valley will be here to stay.

Couple this mode of thinking with better game design approaches that suitably balance interactivity with technical limitations (see David Jaffe and the God of War team) and we will be arriving at Next Generation gameplay sooner than if we made the focus on writing more sophisticated shader programs. What is your (everyone else's) opinion on the matter?
 
I'd agree with alot/some of what you said (depending on how drowsy you are and what you choose to focus on).

But also argue that being CPU-centric or GPU-centric are almost entirely irrelevant past a certain point. Especially where more of the processing tasks you've named are being performed on the GPU as well/instead. And there's too many ways to actually skin the cat to worry about the technique, so much as the results. Which are all rather disturbing if you like cats, I suppose. Just a rumor.

Developers, developers, developers, developers, developers....

[/15 years later]

... Kool aid, fruit bats, and developers.

On that note, kidney stones lead to pain, as well as pain killers. Those docs sure know when to give you some good stuff. Hahahaha
 
I totally agree with your points. These are some of the reasons I am still stuck with consoles no matter how superb many PC games technically look. I overally enjoy games like the ones you mentioned more than I do enjoy some other PC-only great titles. I dont mean only gameplay but how the game world and character feel as an overal experience.

I think a very good example would be a PC mech game compared to ZOE2, or a console RPG (like Shenmue, Grandia, Star Ocean, Vagrant Story, Xenosaga or Xenogears) to PC RPG's.
 
ROG27 said:
I'm going to qualify this thread as my opion, first and foremost. :D It's also in response the the great amount of RSX vs. Xenos threads I've been seeing lately.
Cause people love fights and battles.
If I write "I think edram makes less sense this generation" I also should spend time and effort writing that I'm not saying that Xenos sucks.
Just write a casual comment over CELL or XeCPU and the same f£/"g thing will happen again.
Don't want to derail yout thread, please ignore this post :)
 
ROG27, welcome to the club. prepare to eat lots of salt on these forums.

you can see now and then naive posters trying to bring forth the significance of game dynamics (i.e. animations, interactions, responces) over everything else in a game, but such posts usually get swamped in the daily 'omfg, bump mapping! droooool!....' - 'is not!' - 'is too!' - 'is not!' ... current.
 
I think the only way to successfully advertise a game like that is to never give out screenshots. Only release videos that demonstrate the interactivity, animation and such. However, that means static ads, billboard and magasines (unless they include a disk) are useless to the marketing department. A bit of a problem there.

Personally, I don't think you'll see that happen until no significant advancements in visuals are possible. Every object is smooth polygon wise and well lit (well maybe totally inaccurately so, but still looking good). When visual advancement can only yeild subtle improvements, you'll get what you want. Thankfully, we are amost there imho.
 
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DudeMiester said:
Personally, I don't think you'll see that happen until no significant advancements in visuals are possible. Every object is smooth polygon wise and well lit (well maybe totally inaccurately so, but still looking good). When visual advancement can only yeild subtle improvements, you'll get what you want. Thankfully, we are amost there imho.

I'd have to disagree with you...

If what you said about assets finally becoming aesthetically appeasing was true, why then do I and many others get giddy when we see a static screenshot from the new 2D/3D Super Mario Bros. for Nintendo DS. The technical output of the system is limited, obviously, but it (through it's artwork, animations, and interactions) still evokes emotions of joy and pure, simple fun...feelings that game makers should aim to evoke in the first place.

It's fine to make assets and environments more complex, but the things I mentioned must scale with them. If at any point they do not, then the game maker has failed IMO.
 
Thankfully, we are amost there imho.

We aren't even CLOSE.

Look at Brothers in Arms. Nice graphics, but they had to put building walls twenty feet away everywhere to do that. Oh yeah, you could double the current consoles and not even scratch the surface of the power that's needed or could be used. You could make a system 10X as powerful and it'd be a drop in the bucket.

If anything, the pace of GPU speed increases on PC is increasing of late.
 
Well to a professional we arn't even close, but it's what the average gamer thinks that counts. I look at GoW, and think that it's reasonably close. Also, part of the problem is that it's much easier to see visual definicies in screenshots, then in video. If you never did screenshots as I suggested, your game would look better just "because" imho.
 
Beyond4d said:
Look at Brothers in Arms. Nice graphics, but they had to put building walls twenty feet away everywhere to do that. .

BIA recreated actual battlefiends, real building in real towns, so if there's a wall twenty feet away, that's because it was there in 1944. And anyone who's played BIA knows there are many instances where you traverse long open fields, ditches etc...so there will be plenty of opportunites for big draw distances.
 
Possibly as middleware becomes more of a viable option for studios we will see this. Just look at what Obsidian has done with the development of NWN2. They used a lot of middleware over the course of their development cycle to add more gameplay features. I think a lot of it has to do with time. It will be interesting to see how XNA affects game development.
 
Eleazar said:
Possibly as middleware becomes more of a viable option for studios we will see this. Just look at what Obsidian has done with the development of NWN2. They used a lot of middleware over the course of their development cycle to add more gameplay features. I think a lot of it has to do with time. It will be interesting to see how XNA affects game development.

The only thing I don't particularly care for in regards to middleware engines is how they indirectly affect art by adding that generic engine "x"-esque look to all of the assets and the environment. Just playing devil's advocate. I understand where you are coming from, though.
 
Eleazar said:
Possibly as middleware becomes more of a viable option for studios we will see this. Just look at what Obsidian has done with the development of NWN2. They used a lot of middleware over the course of their development cycle to add more gameplay features. I think a lot of it has to do with time. It will be interesting to see how XNA affects game development.

Middleware is a bit strange to me. If it works, I really don't know why people don't use it. I mean everytime a C++ programmer uses the standard library, they are in effect using middleware. Maybe it's ego getting in the way, or just a general avoidance of learning a library, like how some people avoid learning new spoken languages.
 
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