Next gen lighting technologies - voxelised, traced, and everything else *spawn*

Discussion in 'Rendering Technology and APIs' started by Scott_Arm, Aug 21, 2018.

  1. OCASM

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    DXR accelerates BVH creation/updating and ray tracing against it. The very things rigid body collision detection rely on.

    That barely looks better than last gen fighting games.

    Even the PS3 FFVII tech demo has better cloth physics.

     
    #61 OCASM, Aug 22, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
  2. iroboto

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    Supporting DXR without the hardware would be largely unfeasible and a pointless exercise. 6x a 1080TI is equivalent to over 60TF compute power.

    So we need support with the hardware to make any sort of graphical difference here.
     
  3. iroboto

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    DXR is platform agnostic, so it still likely sitting with AMD in this scenario. I can’t see nvidia changing their business model, they sell GPUs with high premiums, consoles just stand to take that away. Supporting DXR should already drive adoption of their hardware.

    Intel and AMD should have equivalents arriving.
    MS should have had enough foresight with this to have planned this with their next Xbox. The timing is right, to release DXR now and have it mature in time for console releases in 2020/2021
     
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  4. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    This. Unless it's Microsoft's plan to sell an $700-900 console next to Sony's, presumed, $400ish console, Microsoft are still restrained by the technical options that Nvidia can offer. Nvidia can offer GPU cores. Where's the rest of the console coming from and how much is that costing and how much complex does your console need to be because you're not using an APU.

    CPU agnostic perhaps and that's a big IF; plenty of Microsoft's Windows 10 frameworks do not run on non-80x86 CPUs because they don't need too so Microsoft are not expending engineering effort to ensure they do, but this API is not platform agnostic unless Microsoft are looking to make the DirectX Raytracing API an open standard. If not, it's platform locked to Windows 10.
     
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  5. Lalaland

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    Intel has been telling the world "no seriously you guys the next GPU we make will be totes cool" for years. Hell if you've ever had the misfortune to listen to them talk about their current GPU tech you'd know there's no need to evolve as the current solution is just peachy. Honestly if they'd just concentrate on decent driver support that would be a step in the right direction.

    Since Xbox there's been little room in Intel's plans for high volume low margin products like console SoCs but with the death of broad x86 consumer computing perhaps they might decide that a wee console chip is an idea worth doing. They have hired some important talent recently but it seems too soon for this cycle.
     
  6. iroboto

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    Sorry I meant GPU vendor agnostic; ie like DirectX calls work on any GPU vendor that supports DXR.
     
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  7. Ike Turner

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  8. Nesh

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    I wonder how would that affect backwards compatibility
     
  9. Nesh

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    This just made me realise that this video was all bullocks. I doubt the PS3 could do those visuals in real time with such scale.
     
  10. fehu

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    It was a tech demo regarding fmv
     
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  11. Shortbread

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    Sure. One can also teardown a brick-wall by slamming their car into it (brute forcing). But that doesn't make it an ideal choice when a backhoe is available. Simply-put, having the proper hardware equipment in place, more specifically bespoke RT cores, would relieve these types of headaches.
     
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  12. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    It's still kind of an odd design choice. For some years GPU hardware has been progressing towards powerful flexible cores than can be used for anything and now we have this. Bespoke processors. If these are not being used, are those resources just sat there idle?
     
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  13. Ike Turner

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    Sure. But the whole point of this tweet is simply to show that the XXGrays/s claims for the RTX cards are all but meaningless when you don't know how they where measured (scene complexity, view/ray directions, bounces, static or non-static meshes etc..). We will have to wait a few weeks until somebody spills the beans on how those RT cores effectively work etc. As I said in an other thread: Turing is an awesome GPU for Quadro cards the speed up in light baking for tons of things like normal, height, lighting, AO when doing content creation is going to be nuts..but not so much on the consumer side especially at that price and if those RT cores take a shit to of die space. Unlike Jensen's claim it's not as easy as "It just Works!"

    Case in point, lot's of shortcuts are still going to be taken (floating car?):

    [​IMG]
     
    #73 Ike Turner, Aug 22, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
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  14. Shifty Geezer

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    That's true. It's like triangles per second. I assumed it was how many rays the custom hardware could process in regards to their specific workload, akin to the peak triangles per second of a GPU's T&L unit, but we don't know for sure. Although that'd give the biggest possible figure, so it's probably the one they'll pick for marketing reasons! ;)

    Is there any description anywhere of what exactly nVidia's RT hardware actually does (or PVR's RT)? What is it accelerating and how? The big bottleneck with RT is data driven rather than processing.
     
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  15. Shortbread

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    I'm not denying the benefits of having more flexible cores - being able to do more than one rendering task. But here we are today - at the the crossroads. The current class of available GPUs aren't well suited (unless brute-forcing and multi-SLI/NVL is your thing) for RT in the way of performance. If Nvidia's (possibly AMD as well) current formula is to have custom seperate RT logic/cores within the overall GPU design - then why not? Until they (Nvidia/AMD/Intel) figure out a better way of repurposing the current rasterization of doing things, I'm in support of custom specific tasked cores.
     
  16. iroboto

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    Weird. I interpreted that tweet differently, as in overwhelmingly positive for games going forward.

    I get the need to actually break down the Gigaray question but we run into similar issues on the rasterization side. We quote TF but that doesn’t translate into performance. Thus we get people quoting AMD and Nvidia flops.

    That being said, Sebbbi being the beast of the programmer that he is may have found some sick optimizations to make things fly for his game. One would need to question how applicable what his implementation is for other titles and also how far he could take things with Claybook on a 20XX RTX card.
     
  17. iroboto

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    I believe the BVH acceleration is a big part of the acceleration. Holding ray information in there of some sort and I assume it needs to be constantly updated every single frame so perhaps they have a method to update the data structure rapidly.
     
  18. DSoup

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    The why not is that you're paying for hardware that, in all likelihood, is going to see very little use in mainstream games for a few generations. Remember PhysX cards? This looks like this decades's PhysX. :yep2:

    It looks a bit.. well.. desperate. They Nvidia wanted to ship something genuinely new that they didn't think AMD could counter with an alternative and just went with this because what else do they have?
     
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  19. Shortbread

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    You have to start somewhere. Better RT hardware methods aren't going to design themselves. If Nvidia feels like pioneering the way or leading the charge to better RT methods/performance, I'm all for it. You can't fault an innovative company like Nvidia (or AMD) on trying to venture out on new products or concepts.
     
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  20. Ike Turner

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    Well, one can say that they at least have something, unlike AMD... Turing is a great GPU for Pros and even though Pascal is plenty enough for 99% of the gaming needs on PC (lack of serious competition from AMD helps) there would have been a massive shit-storm if they didn't release consumer /GeForce versions this GPU 2 years after Pascal. Especially after not having non-pro version of Volta...They had nothing to loose.
     
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