Next-Gen iPhone & iPhone Nano Speculation

Typical marketing which from Samsung's perspective is completely reasonable and nothing I'd personally oppose to. At another level its Samsung that lacks content and the idiotically high profit margins Apple usually enjoys.

That shouldn't mean that things could not change in the future but if then certainly the less foreseeable one.
 
Big and ugly.

samsung_galaxy_s3_review_14.jpg
 
Well the iPhone 5 is shaping up to be a special little toy indeed...you bet the efficiency of that software/bespoke A6 processor will be bloody ridiculous...I wonder whether they have increased the battery size?

It would disappointing if not, bizarrely someone stated that the lumia 920 has higher quoted usage times.. you would think that would not be the case..mmm.

I can't wait till we get benchmarks and batterylife consumption :)
 
Well the iPhone 5 is shaping up to be a special little toy indeed...you bet the efficiency of that software/bespoke A6 processor will be bloody ridiculous...I wonder whether they have increased the battery size?

It would disappointing if not, bizarrely someone stated that the lumia 920 has higher quoted usage times.. you would think that would not be the case..mmm.

I can't wait till we get benchmarks and batterylife consumption :)

They are using new chemistry and have increased the LiPo battery to 3.8 V, so it has increased capacity.

Nothing new though, since Motorola have been doing it a year now but every bit counts :)
 
Only in fanboys wet dreams. Krait isn't something special on single thread workloads in comparison with A9, I am highly doubt that Apple will be able to beat ARM on ARM's own field anytime soon

Eh? Not like it hasn't happened before (StrongARM) nor that a large number of apple designers come from the same lineage as the designers that did StrongARM.
 
It would disappointing if not, bizarrely someone stated that the lumia 920 has higher quoted usage times.. you would think that would not be the case..mmm.

Considering that the 920 has the highest volume to screensize ratio and the highest weight to screensize ratio, you would hope they could fit a big battery.
 
Considering that the 920 has the highest volume to screensize ratio and the highest weight to screensize ratio, you would hope they could fit a big battery.

I'm not talking about lumia size...I'm talking about SOC efficiency ...lumia only has 2000 mha battery... also has much bigger and higher resolution screen...as well as likely higher clocked cpu, with apple having custom built the chip from the ground up perfectly tailored to the now long in the tooth and heavily optimised ios, you would think it would smoke the lumia....I expect it will.
 
Yeah they may have been using some inside info about the A6.

S3 has better standby but what about actual use time? Apple claims 8 hours LTE browsing time?
 
Did that Samsung ad list 1 gig of ram for the iphone 5 before the Anandtech article?
Anandtech found out the size by recognizing a Samsung DRAM part number on the SoC picture Apple provided. It's not surprising that Samsung would recognize their own part number a lot quicker. It didn't have to be the foundry division leaking information to the rest of Samsung, especially since Samsung has been pretty adamant about keeping their component business isolated from Apple/Samsung smartphone politics to keep that component business relationship viable as long as possible.
 
Yeah they may have been using some inside info about the A6.

S3 has better standby but what about actual use time? Apple claims 8 hours LTE browsing time?
It wouldn't surprise me that it actually will be much superior to the S3; power management on the 4412 in the S3 is horrible; they had claimed per-core DVFS, clock-gating and power-gating, but in reality the chip still is running on a single frequency plane for all the cores, and the only idle power management feature active right now is WFI (clock-gating) per core, which on a 4-core chip, is not enough. Together with the power-hungry AMOLED screen, it doesn't take much for the iPhone to be able to beat it, regardless of the battery size disparity.
 
It wouldn't surprise me that it actually will be much superior to the S3; power management on the 4412 in the S3 is horrible; they had claimed per-core DVFS, clock-gating and power-gating, but in reality the chip still is running on a single frequency plane for all the cores, and the only idle power management feature active right now is WFI (clock-gating) per core, which on a 4-core chip, is not enough. Together with the power-hungry AMOLED screen, it doesn't take much for the iPhone to be able to beat it, regardless of the battery size disparity.

Well correct me if I'm wrong but that statement is false...my s3 runs on at least 2 voltage planes.

The power management on it is also extremely good, batterylife is superb..especially considering the luminous 4.8 inch hd screen.

Also power gating also has worked flawlessly from the first day I got it...able to shut down 3 cores if need be.
 
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Well correct me if I'm wrong but that statement is false...my s3 runs on at least 2 voltage planes.

The power management on it is also extremely good, batterylife is superb..especially considering the luminous 4.8 inch hd screen.

Also power gating also has worked flawlessly from the first day I got it...able to shut down 3 cores if need be.
You are wrong, I remember you claiming you seeing it run on different frequencies per core, I don't know what program you used to monitor, you might have confused that with core load, and not frequency.

The ARM cores are fed by a single voltage rail from the external PMIC, for it to actually have per-core DVFS it either needs 4 rails on the external PMIC, or for it to have on-chip regulators. In any way the CPUs run on a single frequency plane and you can see that in /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/affected_cpus. Hotplugging the CPUs is a limited and only rough and coarse power management feature and currently it samples every 2 seconds on wether to turn off a core or not, and hotplugging itself is very latency bound by the operating system due to kernel architectures and how it handles migration and creation/destruction of the kthreads, resulting latencies of ~80-150ms for current kernels on consumer devices, compared to actual transition times of dozens of microseconds for which the hardware is capable of.

With newer 3.5+ kernels we now have coupled cpuidle frameworks in the kernel allowing for efficient entry into power-collapse C-states, which affect in most SoC implementations the whole CPU power plane. The hardware itself is not a limitation, but the software is. Precursor to this we could have power-collapse on a core while top (screen on) was running only if that core was the only one running. On the Exynos this is called AFTR/Arm Off Top Running. I'm currently trying to port this myself onto the arch cpuidle driver, but since the system is running on a 3.0 kernel, there is a lot of backporting to be done. The current driver is also dubious in terms of the specified residency times for WFI, being about 1000 times higher than any other architecture out there, and since this differs greatly to the values in the updated driver for the 5250, I think it is a big overlooked mistake in the kernel code.

Did you not ever ask yourself why the device runs so hot in screen-on idle? 40°C CPU temperature at 200MHz while supposedly also clock-gated most of the time, nevermind even hotplugged other cores, is not normal. The phone would have much better screen on battery life if it's power management would be optimized.
 
You obviously have a lot of experience in his area, however I can only report on what my eyes have told me using system tuner pro..(available on the play store).

Now unless the app is bogus which is unlikely then I can confirm 3 cores can be switched off..whether that's power gating or what ever, I have seen up to two groups of cpus running at separate frequencies, but not any more than that.

Metaphor and arun both saw screen shots of the app showing what I have just said, and it was one of those that come to that quick conclusion...like I said I don't doubt your experience but my own eyes say differently :/.

Edit: ive private messaged you with my drop box details, let me know your thoughts....
 
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You obviously have a lot of experience in his area, however I can only report on what my eyes have told me using system tuner pro..(available on the play store).

Now unless the app is bogus which is unlikely then I can confirm 3 cores can be switched off..whether that's power gating or what ever, I have seen up to two groups of cpus running at separate frequencies, but not any more than that.

Metaphor and arun both saw screen shots of the app showing what I have just said, and it was one of those that come to that quick conclusion...like I said I don't doubt your experience but my own eyes say differently :/.

Edit: ive private messaged you with my drop box details, let me know your thoughts....
System tuner or any other application gathers its data by shell commands to read out the system interfaces, what you occasionally see is an out-of-sync read-out of the frequencies between the cores, nothing more, nothing less.

And as I said, hot-plugging is a bad and coarse power-management, it works, but it's not efficient. Also modern architectures use a tick-less kernel design (NoHZ), which up until this summer had a big bug in their computations of CPU idle time in a NoHZ situation, which skewed the values of the scheduler's internal nr_running statistics (How many tasks are in the runqueue), which are being used by the governor in charge of hot-plugging decisions. This all made for inefficient hot-plugging decisions. This is fixed and tuned in most custom kernels for the S3 which you can freely download.

Now let's get back to Apple and iPhone discussions, don't want to hijack the thread any more.
 
No this is not an out of sync read out, it's a clearly defined set of parameters...switch on a core @ 500mhz, then can scale up or down from 200mhz all the way up to 1.4ghz...in up to 2 distinct groups of separate frequencies....this is very clear to see in the screen shots I have uploaded on my drop box account..which you can access to look for your self in the link i provided..clearly a designed SOC feature rather than an abnormality in software which you propose.

Anyway your correct..back to thread discussion.
 
No this is not an out of sync read out, it's a clearly defined set of parameters...switch on a core @ 500mhz, then can scale up or down from 200mhz all the way up to 1.4ghz...in up to 2 distinct groups of separate frequencies....this is very clear to see in the screen shots I have uploaded on my drop box account..which you can access to look for your self in the link i provided..clearly a designed SOC feature rather than an abnormality in software which you propose.

Anyway your correct..back to thread discussion.
Erm no. You have a single screenshot showing distinct frequencies, and as I said that's an out-of-sync readout by the app. I explained it to you why that is not true, and if you still don't believe me you're welcome to study the kernel source code on the frequency scaling logic and governor decision-making: [1] - [2] - [3].
 
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/1030202
http://browser.primatelabs.com/ios-benchmarks

So it looks like the A6 is clocked at 1GHz, dual core, 32KB/32KB L1 cache, and 1MB L2 cache. If the A6 is using a shorter pipeline than Cortex A15 then it should be doing more clock-for-clock making direct clock speed spec comparisons misleading. I guess this'll mean Apple will be even less inclined to reveal clock speeds anymore. The 1GHz A6 scores 1601 in Geekbench compared to ~750 for 1GHz A5/A5X and ~630 for the 800MHz A5 so about 2.5x faster than the iPhone 4S in theoreticals.

EDIT:
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench2/1030339

Comparing to a detailed iPhone 4S it looks like the breakdown is 2.2x integer speedup, 2.8x FP, 2.5x memory performance, and 3.2x memory bandwidth. Seeing as the theoretical memory bandwidth only increased 33%, from 2x32-bit LPDDR2-800 to 2x32-bit LPDDR2-1066, Apple must have really improved their memory controller bandwidth efficiency as Anand was hoping for when he makes his claims that ARM reference memory controllers aren't very efficient.

EDIT2:
http://browser.primatelabs.com/android-benchmarks

For comparison, quad core 1.4GHz Cortex A9 in the Galaxy S3 gets 1560 in Geekbench and dual core 1.5GHz Krait in the HTC One S gets 1258. So it looks like the A6 matches current high-end CPUs and looks pretty efficient clock for clock against Krait. It'll be interesting to see how it'll look against Cortex A15.
 
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