Next-Gen iPhone & iPhone Nano Speculation

[dagamer]

They may have coded iOS 6 with some features that actually take advantage of it. I think a MP3 or MP4 is definitely overkill on the other side. If they are going to stay with an A5 family device, there's isn't much to do but shrink the die and end up with something similar to the $400 iPad 2 CPU. It's not really hurting in CPU or GPU performance, but the battery now has to power a bigger screen and LTE, potentially.

I don't buy sticking a quad core processor inside the next iPhone only to take it away for a dual-core A15 next year. Besides, the iPad 3 didn't get a CPU bump at all.

I think they'll just take the 32nm A5 chips they have now and bump the GPU clocks a bit, maybe increase the CPU as well. The key really is to balance out whatever increase LTE has in increased battery drain.

 

[tangey]

I don't buy sticking a quad core processor inside the next iPhone only to take it away for a dual-core A15 next year. Besides, the iPad 3 didn't get a CPU bump at all.

I think they'll just take the 32nm A5 chips they have now and bump the GPU clocks a bit, maybe increase the CPU as well. The key really is to balance out whatever increase LTE has in increased battery drain.

@32nm the obvious choice for me is MP2@400mhz, given the number of socs they intend to ship and the proportion of die space the mp4 takes in the a5x( which IMO is only mp4 cause they had to stick with 45nm).
I strongly suspect That they will go quad core A9, as dual a9 is already 2nd tier in marketing terms, and this iPhone isn't coming out til oct.
I am interested to know what key selling feature they will use this time round. Looks like they might concentrate on the bigger screen, but can they get away with making a 4" screen sounding revolutionary ?

 

[RudeCurve]

A 4" screen is a big improvement to previous iPhone 4. Apple usually compares their new products to their own previous generation ones. They don't need to try to compare to other makes.

 

[dagamer]

@32nm the obvious choice for me is MP2@400mhz, given the number of socs they intend to ship and the proportion of die space the mp4 takes in the a5x( which IMO is only mp4 cause they had to stick with 45nm).
I strongly suspect That they will go quad core A9, as dual a9 is already 2nd tier in marketing terms, and this iPhone isn't coming out til oct.
I am interested to know what key selling feature they will use this time round. Looks like they might concentrate on the bigger screen, but can they get away with making a 4" screen sounding revolutionary ?

Marketing? Since when does Apple care about marketing? The A5 in the iPhone 4S runs at ~800Mhz compared to the 1.2-1.5Ghz chips out there. Does it run any slower? Nope. Does running at a higher clock use more power? Yes.

And I'm sure we really don't need to rehash the fact that few apps are ever designed to take advantage of 4 CPU cores. And again, it's pretty much a certainty that next year will have a dual-core A15. This is one case where more really isn't that much better.

 

[tangey]

Marketing? Since when does Apple care about marketing?.

Siri.

But I think this argument has been played out earlier in the thread.

 

[Jubei]

I don't buy sticking a quad core processor inside the next iPhone only to take it away for a dual-core A15 next year.

Assuming Apple is planning to go dual-core A15 next year...

How much does Cortex A15 draw in watts at idle compared to Cortex A9? Sure it has far better power/performance since it will complete the task faster but at idle it might be a different story. There is a reason ARM developed big.little

If Apple is planning to use big.little or their own custom processor then maybe it makes sense to have developers start using multiple cores in their apps as preparation for next year. There was evidence in xcode of Apple using Marvell quad-core chips so they have atleast experimented with it

Also im not so sure this SOC will be a straight up shrink with nothing new

Apple started working on S5L8945X (Ipad 3) and S5L8950X (Iphone 5) at the same time. Both were discovered in early februarys iOS 5.1 beta

The original A4 was called S5L8930X and the A5 was S5L8940X. That was a jump of 10 in labeling while the Ipad 3 was only a jump of 5. It might just be coincidence or it might be that the Iphone 5 will be more than just a dieshrink

 

[Laurent06]

How much does Cortex A15 draw in watts at idle compared to Cortex A9? Sure it has far better power/performance since it will complete the task faster but at idle it might be a different story.

The efficiency increases up to a point after which increases in performance cost so much that the energy consumed increases again. Note I'm not claiming A9 is the sweet spot, that's just a remark

 

[metafor]

The "sweet spot" also varies with process choice. But overall, judging by the area of A15 vs A9, leakage is likely a lot worse at the same process.

That being said, I believe A15 can go on an LP process and clock up to similar frequencies as an A9 on a far leakier G process. Not that anyone's going to make A15 on 45/40LP....

But the point is, even if the uarch is inherently larger and therefore more leaky, it may allow higher/similar frequency/performance on a less leaky process such that leakage at some given performance level actually ends up better. Note that I said "at some performance level".

 

[RudeCurve]

No comment on the recent news regarding Apple hiring AMD's John Bruno?

 

[anexanhume]

No comment on the recent news regarding Apple hiring AMD's John Bruno?

Well, he wouldn't have a heavy hand in any architecture prior to probably what would be the successor of the successor of the A5X or whatever goes in the next iPhone. This guy could be an eventual Mansfield replacement though.

 

[french toast]

Don't think for one minute apple will go for a quad core processor...ios just doesn't need it.

I think they will go for a low power core aka tegra 3 alongside 2 A15's @ 1.2ghz....for ios that would be plenty powerfull.

 

[Pressure]

I agree, the performance boost going from Cortex-A9 to Cortex-A15 will be plenty. Again, the biggest increase will come in the form of improved graphics (hoping for PowerVR Series 6).

 

[Jubei]

Don't think for one minute apple will go for a quad core processor...ios just doesn't need it.

I think they will go for a low power core aka tegra 3 alongside 2 A15's @ 1.2ghz....for ios that would be plenty powerfull.

"Using iPhoto, it’s easily possible to peg both cores at near-100% CPU utilization, particularly when applying a brush. This is one of the very few times I’ve felt like the iPad is CPU-limited, but a quad-core SoC would likely have been very helpful in making the iPhoto experience smoother and faster"

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5688/apple-ipad-2012-review/9

As apps get more and more advanced there will be usage scenarios on the iPad where you do need quad-cores. However as i said the more likely scenario is that Apple will go with a big.Little solution

 

[anexanhume]

^ Yup. I wouldn't rule out an A5-like processor with the CPU cores doubled on a 32nm process. We already have the A5 on 32nm, so it's obvious they're already committed to that node with that architecture.

 

[Pressure]

"Using iPhoto, it’s easily possible to peg both cores at near-100% CPU utilization, particularly when applying a brush. This is one of the very few times I’ve felt like the iPad is CPU-limited, but a quad-core SoC would likely have been very helpful in making the iPhoto experience smoother and faster"

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5688/apple-ipad-2012-review/9

As apps get more and more advanced there will be usage scenarios on the iPad where you do need quad-cores. However as i said the more likely scenario is that Apple will go with a big.Little solution

I suppose more and more of it can be alleviated by using Core Animation and use the graphics core for parallel computing.

No need to throw hardware at everything when smarter code can also be applied.

Sure down the road but it still isn't supposed to be a computer replacement.

 

[wco81]

Will this September or October be too early for A15 and Rogue cores?

To ship in the kind of volumes Apple is going to try to ship?

 

[french toast]

"Using iPhoto, it’s easily possible to peg both cores at near-100% CPU utilization, particularly when applying a brush. This is one of the very few times I’ve felt like the iPad is CPU-limited, but a quad-core SoC would likely have been very helpful in making the iPhoto experience smoother and faster"

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5688/apple-ipad-2012-review/9

As apps get more and more advanced there will be usage scenarios on the iPad where you do need quad-cores. However as i said the more likely scenario is that Apple will go with a big.Little solution

yea I defo think quad cores have a usage....perhaps big-little will be the sweet spot with all 4 cores able to combine for tasks such as that...

It would make more sense for apple to go with that solution..perhaps dual a15s @1.5ghz ...backed up by 2 a7s @ 500mhz or something?...that way they get the best of both worlds...insane efficiency..mega single thread performance bump...and quad core multitasking/marketing muscle....not sure about die size...but apple doesn't seem care much for that!

If I were apple...that's what I'd go for...

Will this September or October be too early for A15 and Rogue cores?

To ship in the kind of volumes Apple is going to try to ship?

Yea it's way too early...remember the soc will likely be including rogue and lpddr3...maybe cortex a7s?...to combine those we are looking Q2 2013....besides apple usually brings out new soc. With ipads..

 

[Lazy8s]

I'm guessing a G64xx variant @ 650 MHz for the new iPad and the same core @ 500 MHz for the 2013 iPhone, produced on Samsung's 32nm.

 

[anexanhume]

Will this September or October be too early for A15 and Rogue cores?

To ship in the kind of volumes Apple is going to try to ship?

A15 no. Rogue yes.

Samsung is already in production of 32nm A15 cores (Exynos 5250) if their roadmap is still valid.

 

[Lazy8s]

Considering Apple has had silicon back on a Rogue equipped SoC for at least a little while and considering ST-Ericsson's miss on their projection of a late 2012 target for A9600 was a fab issue and not directly a SoC issue, I'm pretty sure Apple could be ready with a Rogue based GPU if they really wanted to push it for a 2012 iPhone. The A15 is the processor that'd give me some hesitation for an October 2012 projection, assuming Apple won't have their own custom ARM CPU solution.

I think Apple may wait to introduce Rogue with their new iPad, regardless, to benefit from better manufacturing process maturity.