Next-gen console versus PC comparison *spawn

[chris1515]

Yeah I did address that in my earlier post. My suggestion was that you'd want an RX 6800 along with as fast a PCIe 4.0 SSD as you can lay your hands on. The RX 6800 I suspect will be overkill during its "useful PC life" while it's still supported in drivers and by developers. But once it falls of that treadmill (like the first gen GCN GPU's did some time ago) it'll have to rely on raw horsepower to make up the efficiency deficit. Whether it has enough of that to last the entire generation is up for debate but my suspicion is that in 95%+ of case it will.

On the IO side, we're still yet to find out exactly what Direct Storage does on the PC side and whether AMD GPU's will handle decompression like Nvidia's with RTX-IO. If they will, then you probably won;t need to go bleeding edge with the SSD, but I would anyway just in case GPU based decompression isn't a default part of the Direct Storage standard.



Oh yeah it looked terrible. But often you will find that increasing settings from low to medium has a relatively low impact on performance. So it may only be a handful of settings that you need to bump up with a minor performance impact to equal the base console settings. Ditto with the resolution. The res used was ridiculously low so I wouldn't be surprised if increasing it to something still ridiculously low like 840p wouldn't have a huge impact. It's possible that that isn't the bottleneck, the tester is simply turning everything down to minimum to try and maximise frame rates rather than looking for optimal settings of visual quality vs frame rate.



I'm not entirely convinced of this at the moment. While 10GB will definitely limit you at maxed out PC settings (it already can in some games), it might be enough to last the generation at console settings. This was looked at in another thread recently with the 4GB GTX 980 acting as a proxy (much more core power but half the VRAM of the current gen consoles) and the result seemed to be that the 980 was never bottlenecked by it's VRAM at console settings with no examples found were it didn't perform better (usually significantly so) than the PS4. Of course the fast IO could change that dynamic this gen though.



Yes I agree with this. Worth noting though that PC's make things less straight forward to compare as they also have system RAM pools. System RAM can be used as a fast cache (faster than the console SSD's) to store data outside of VRAM for fast retrieval without having to rely on fast IO. Granted it can't replace some aspects of fast IO, but insofar as the fast IO being a VRAM multiplier because you have to pre-cache less far ahead into the future, the system RAM could full fill a similar role. As a very simplified example you could say cache the next 30 seconds in 16GB of VRAM, but then another 30 seconds after that in system RAM before having to worry about having to go back to the IO.

I still see fast IO as essential this gen for a console matching experience though.

10 GB will only be used for GPU workload on Xbox Series X, they have 3,5 GB of RAM of slower RAM for CPU and sound workload.

And this is logic 980 was never VRAM limited with 4 GB of RAM, Consoles need to use some of the 5 GB of RAM for system (CPU workload) at 1 to 1.5 GB.

I think it is the weakness of 3070 and the rumored 3060 Ti with 8 GB of RAM. For sure GPU will use nearly 10 GB of RAM later in the generation

 

[Deleted member 86764]

Watchdogs is considered a terrible port, same goes for HZD according to many (depending on configuration).

Yes, the 7870 still tags along fine. You can still game on it, pretty close to base one/ps4 settings. Actually, settings on base consoles can be lower then low on pc. Also, its not like the base ps4 never drops any frames (seen RDR2 for example?), its kinda bad at times, in special modern games.
Seeing tests videos, for what it is the 7870 2gb isnt that far off from what the base ps4 is doing. Despite it being a 2012 mid range gpu with a puny 2gb ram and on drivers that almost sure are not optimized anywhere close for a 7870.
Someone that had bought a 7870 back in 2012 had the option to use it for the whole generation, you have to go lower on settings it ages, but so did the PS4.
You have to see over the whole seven years aswell, in the beginning that 7870 was actually outperforming the PS4, with as time passed on, the 7870 having to go lower and lower in settings.

Seeing how it went for the comparable GTX660.... AMD GPUs have aged much better (due to compute, console etc?).

A 3700X/6800 (XT), fast pci3 or 4 nvme with direct storage will last a generation, just like a 7870 is still servicable even today.
All in all, im surprised a 7870 2gb from 2012 still can even run anything.

You are beyond logic. Even your videos prove you wrong. It's only you arguing this point about 7850/7870. If you're a typical PC gamer then you're bringing the side down, when there are genuinely interesting voices.

I took you off ignore for a while, but you're going back on. I can't keep up with the nonsense of your posts, they're absolutely and consistently false. It's a shame that Beyond 3D gets these nonsensical posts in a cyclical nature constantly coming up.

 

[techuse]

You are beyond logic. Even your videos prove you wrong. It's only you arguing this point about 7850/7870. If you're a typical PC gamer then you're bringing the side down, when there are genuinely interesting voices.

I took you off ignore for a while, but you're going back on. I can't keep up with the nonsense of your posts, they're absolutely and consistently false. It's a shame that Beyond 3D gets these nonsensical posts in a cyclical nature constantly coming up.

I'm starting to suspect he's purposefully trolling. No one here can be this ignorant in the face of repeated evidence.

 

[techuse]

Death Stranding workaround allows it to be tested on a 7850.

PS4 comparable performance achieved at 1080p with everything low/off and FidelityFX upscaling. I don't know what the internal resolution with FidelityFX enabled was.

 

[see colon]

I really respect BenchArt. You can tell he's just a guy who enjoys making videos, but he's lucky if his videos get 100 views. But he bencharked his last system with a Phenom II in it until about a year ago, and he benches an old laptop with a terrible nVidia GPU in it. If you want to know how modern games run on older or budget hardware, I'd recommend him.

 

[PSman1700]

Obviously driver issue. Similar performance GPUs as old as the PS4 do just aswell generally, if not better.

''16:16 - 1080p High (default) Recommended Settings 30 fps Locked with automatic upscaling.''

PS4 aint doing 'High' for all settings, 3 to 5fps are lost due to recording. Hm, sure not far off from the base ps4. Actually, i'd prefer this on his setup, as higher settings is something id like.
R7 260 is around 7850/7870 level performance (the uploader even metions 7790/750Ti). This 199 dollar mid ranger launched 2013, same year as the PS4. Tagging along just fine.
Quite amazing that, a mid range 199 dollar GPU as old as the PS4 can run everything at console level settings. This sure wasnt the case with previous generations. GPUs age better these days. Only puny 2gb VRAM also.

Going with a mid range AMD gpu now (10TF 6700XT?) wont give you much trouble.

 

[techuse]

Obviously driver issue. Similar performance GPUs as old as the PS4 do just aswell generally, if not better.

''16:16 - 1080p High (default) Recommended Settings 30 fps Locked with automatic upscaling.''

PS4 aint doing 'High' for all settings, 3 to 5fps are lost due to recording. Hm, sure not far off from the base ps4. Actually, i'd prefer this on his setup, as higher settings is something id like.
R7 260 is around 7850/7870 level performance (the uploader even metions 7790/750Ti). This 199 dollar mid ranger launched 2013, same year as the PS4. Tagging along just fine.
Quite amazing that, a mid range 199 dollar GPU as old as the PS4 can run everything at console level settings. This sure wasnt the case with previous generations. GPUs age better these days. Only puny 2gb VRAM also.

Going with a mid range AMD gpu now (10TF 6700XT?) wont give you much trouble.

PS4 actually does run at the default/high settings. So once again, no this doesn’t match PS4 performance. PS4 runs at native 1080p, this requires FidelityFX upscaling which reduces the resolution some amount.

 

[HLJ]

it's empty in comparison to PC, or XsX to a certain extent, but it's not emptier than say GTA5 for exemple.

There is a natural limited to the hardware in consoles, this generation (so called "next-gen" consoles) are futher behind the PC then any launch I remember before and any game designed for PC and scaled down so it can get crammed into the consoles will show this...and the difference will only get bigger with time.

That might ruffle some feathers, but you cannot break the laws of physics.

If peoole whine now...imagine how they will whine in 4 years /shudders

 

[Subtlesnake]

There is a natural limited to the hardware in consoles, this generation (so called "next-gen" consoles) are futher behind the PC then any launch I remember before and any game designed for PC and scaled down so it can get crammed into the consoles will show this...and the difference will only get bigger with time.

Further behind than the PS4 was at launch with its 7850 class GPU and netbook classs CPU?

 

[Karamazov]

There is a natural limited to the hardware in consoles, this generation (so called "next-gen" consoles) are futher behind the PC then any launch I remember before and any game designed for PC and scaled down so it can get crammed into the consoles will show this...and the difference will only get bigger with time.

That might ruffle some feathers, but you cannot break the laws of physics.

If peoole whine now...imagine how they will whine in 4 years /shudders

no it's alright, only a few whinning people and PC master race trolls who just want to see the consoles burn, but it's already more successful than its predecessors, so everything will just go well and consoles players will have fun and great games.
The others ? they'll just exhaust themselves yelling on the internet forums their narrow minded ideas.

 

[Tkumpathenurple]

There is a natural limited to the hardware in consoles, this generation (so called "next-gen" consoles) are futher behind the PC then any launch I remember before and any game designed for PC and scaled down so it can get crammed into the consoles will show this...and the difference will only get bigger with time.

That might ruffle some feathers, but you cannot break the laws of physics.

If peoole whine now...imagine how they will whine in 4 years /shudders

You're talking nonsense again. The limitations present in this game on the PS5 are because it's running the PS4 Pro version at higher clockspeeds. Please stop trolling.

 

[HLJ]

You're talking nonsense again. The limitations present in this game on the PS5 are because it's running the PS4 Pro version at higher clockspeeds. Please stop trolling.

Not trolling, just stating facts people are in apparently in denial about.

8 x Zen 2 Cores(with SMT) @ 3.5GHz with 5700XT'ish performance is the hardware.

CPU:
A CPU around Ryzen 7 Pro 3700 performance (being generous here as the boost of the 3700 is 4.4GHz, not 3.5GHz)
I had that level performance in 2018 (i9-9900X)
3 years behind.


GPU:
I had similar performance in 2017 (1080 Ti). This is now 2021.
4 Years behind.

Then you add the disappointing RT performance/quality and it gets even worse.

CP2077 is the prime example of a game designed for PC, shoe-horned into the consoles...sacrifices had to be made.
Image fidelity, NPC density and resolution (to name a few) got turned way down and has had given some sour grapes, just look in this thread..ample examples to be found.

Now fast forward 4 years and the consoles will be around 6-8 years behind the performance of a high end PC...more sacrifices will have to be made when games designed for PC has to be shoehorned into the consoles, like it or not.

I have stated before that "next-gen" consoles very much are "last-gen" PC's and nothing in any game reviews has changed my opinion, quite the opposite in fact.

The consoles are cheap and gives good value for your money at get go, but "next-gen" is really more marketing than reality.

I have not seen any games going outside what I have stated about consoles, but feel free to link me to anything I missed?

 

[Malo]

CP2077 is the prime example of a game designed for PC, shoe-horned into the consoles...sacrifices had to be made.
Image fidelity, NPC density and resolution (to name a few) got turned way down and has had given some sour grapes, just look in this thread..ample examples to be found.

All of which has nothing to do with the current consoles.

 

[PSman1700]

The consoles are where they should be, offering the best for the 400/500 dollar mark. Its about where the PS4/One where in 2013 regarding hardware.
With consoles though, its not the hardware thats intresting, its the software (exclusives) i can not get on pc.

 

[Tkumpathenurple]

Not trolling, just stating facts people are in apparently in denial about.

8 x Zen 2 Cores(with SMT) @ 3.5GHz with 5700XT'ish performance is the hardware.

CPU:
A CPU around Ryzen 7 Pro 3700 performance (being generous here as the boost of the 3700 is 4.4GHz, not 3.5GHz)
I had that level performance in 2018 (i9-9900X)
3 years behind.


GPU:
I had similar performance in 2017 (1080 Ti). This is now 2021.
4 Years behind.

Then you add the disappointing RT performance/quality and it gets even worse.

CP2077 is the prime example of a game designed for PC, shoe-horned into the consoles...sacrifices had to be made.
Image fidelity, NPC density and resolution (to name a few) got turned way down and has had given some sour grapes, just look in this thread..ample examples to be found.

Now fast forward 4 years and the consoles will be around 6-8 years behind the performance of a high end PC...more sacrifices will have to be made when games designed for PC has to be shoehorned into the consoles, like it or not.

I have stated before that "next-gen" consoles very much are "last-gen" PC's and nothing in any game reviews has changed my opinion, quite the opposite in fact.

The consoles are cheap and gives good value for your money at get go, but "next-gen" is really more marketing than reality.

I have not seen any games going outside what I have stated about consoles, but feel free to link me to anything I missed?

I'm doing something else this evening. I'm British, so I'm happy to resume approximately noon tomorrow. Approximately 14 hours from now. Take care xoxoxoxoxo

 

[digitalwanderer]

CP2077 is the prime example of a game designed for PC, shoe-horned into the consoles...sacrifices had to be made.
Image fidelity, NPC density and resolution (to name a few) got turned way down and has had given some sour grapes, just look in this thread..ample examples to be found.

Wow, consollers complaining about PCitis! I never thought I'd live to see this day, thank you!

So many years us PC peeps have been whinging on about consolitis and how they're dumbing games down, it's refreshing to hear from the other side on that.

 

[Subtlesnake]

GPU:
I had similar performance in 2017 (1080 Ti). This is now 2021.
4 Years behind.

Because the 2080S and 2080 completely destroyed the performance of the 1080 Ti, right?

 

[HLJ]

Because the 2080S and 2080 completely destroyed the performance of the 1080 Ti, right?

It does when using raytracing.
Raytracing is comming more and more and the consoles really do not have the RT performance to keep up now and in the future that gap will only expand.

 

[HLJ]

Wow, consollers complaining about PCitis! I never thought I'd live to see this day, thank you!

So many years us PC peeps have been whinging on about consolitis and how they're dumbing games down, it's refreshing to hear from the other side on that.

Yeah, raytracing really turned the tables here.

 

[HLJ]

The consoles are where they should be, offering the best for the 400/500 dollar mark. Its about where the PS4/One where in 2013 regarding hardware.
With consoles though, its not the hardware thats intresting, its the software (exclusives) i can not get on pc.

So without the walled garden, you had no interest in the consoles right?