Next-gen console versus PC comparison *spawn

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by PSman1700, Oct 11, 2019.

  1. PSman1700

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    So, how is the PC and other platforms going to adapt to a SSD system that Sony has? or will most cross platform games suffer?
     
  2. Jay

    Jay
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    Think this person is on the right tracks
    :lol:
    Fall 2020+ I don't think it's unreasonable to say min spec will be ssd (ssd in pc's, especially ones used for gaming been a thing for a while now)
    Recommended spec ssd & 32GB

    Min spec may not give you a good experience but probably as playable as current min spec is capable off.
    But with ssd and reasonable size ram buffer should be ok, even if ssd itself isn't as fast or good as consoles implementation.
     
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  3. PSman1700

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    Main ram is going to be faster then consoles SSD implementation i guess. Were on DDr4 now, DDR5 ain't long away i think. But we will see, we don't know anything really about PS5 specs. Interesting to say the least, i think PS5 will be more competing with PC then PS4 did, good thing so we see better cross platform games.
     
  4. DmitryKo

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    #4 DmitryKo, Oct 12, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
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  5. Jay

    Jay
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    Pc's play cross platform games from the worst to the best.
    It's all about how much someone is willing to pay.
    Next gen will push the bar up a lot further than current gen did though.
    The min spec will jump a fair bit for some games.
    Recommended specs will see ssd where before it wasn't, and already starting to see 32GB ram, and decent enough CPU's recommend.
     
  6. eastmen

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    PC gamers will just upgrade like they always do. Most games will take a few years to really take advantage of the new hardware and by then pc will be past that hardware. I remember a glorious moment in time that my 360 was more powerful than my pc but then I bought an x1800 which came out around the time of the x360 and suddenly my pc was faster again. I except the same to happen , pc users can already get 12 core zen 3 chips and pci-e 4 ssds . Couple that with 2020 graphics cards and I don't think the pcs will suffer.
     
  7. PSman1700

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    Late 2020 it might cost less then that 1200, and offer more performance.
     
  8. anexanhume

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    Exactly. People always look at the high end for PCs when comparing and fail to recognize steam surveys show 85% of people have 1060 or less. And the amount of people that have their game libraries on 3GB/s or better SSDs is pretty small too.
     
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  9. PSman1700

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    After sometime, most pc's will be much faster then the next-gen consoles, faster then those will sell to 100 million in 7 years. Just like now.
    When PS5 launches most still will own a base PS4, like when so many are left with mere 1060's (or something in that range).
     
  10. DmitryKo

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    The question was about SSD performance, and you'll most likely need a top-performing PCIe x4 SDD, fast memory and additional CPU cores to emulate Sony's custom game loading / installation process.

    Steam Hardware survey for Windows PCs as of September 2019 shows that

    1) most popular RAM sizes are 8 and 16 GB (36.80% / 35.77%), while only 5.43% have more than 16 GB, and that

    2) most popular CPU cores are 4, 2, and 6 (52.10%, 23.88%, 17.55%), with 8-core CPUs taking only 4.00%.

    The usual change rate is only 1-2% each month, so it would take years for the average gaming PC to catch up.

    A decent gaming PC build has been in this price range for the last 25 years. This is the median cost of a mid-range PC that game software developers take as their target configuration, which has always been a moving target.
    Also my figures do not include a Windows license or a new case and power supply.

    So basically $1000-$1200 is the bare minimum for most people to get started immediately.

    Comparing to the price of the actual game console, it's probably hard for anyone but hardcore PC gamers to justify the additional cost, unless they are also content creators and require the best performance.
     
    #10 DmitryKo, Oct 12, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2019
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  11. PSman1700

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    But that we don't really know yet. 32GB main ram or more might be the solution then, with ram prices sinking this could be a faster solution even.
    Needing more cores, maybe but Zen 3 8 cores will be clocked higher then the consoles versions i assume.

    It's not until recent times with AMD becoming relevant that 8 cores are getting more popular, with R7 chips that wont slow down atleast. With the arrival of next gen consoles people finally would need to upgrade.

    It depends, the new consoles will most certainly be kinda mid-range pc's in most aspects, and as time passes a matching pc will cost closer and closer to what the base consoles will go for. The advantages are not only content creation, best version of titles, FPS, resolution, settings, and in most cases controls. The option to upgrade parts down the line etc. No paying to be able to play online. The initial price of a console is cheaper, about half the price of a pc you mentioned, thats an advantage and.... exclusives then.
     
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  12. anexanhume

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    After said consoles have been on the market for numerous years at an affordable mass market price point. What's your point?
     
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  13. Jay

    Jay
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    Low end pc gaming is determined by game support.
    If the games people want to play is supported they will make do with what they have even if its far from ideal and what others would consider painful.

    Thats one of the reasons I said that pc gaming is the worst to the best. But as you highlighted most people focus on the pc master race part of the spectrum.

    Up until now, sdd was not needed, it just made things a lot better.

    Cross platform games that need ssd's to play because it's not feasible on hdd will come and if its games the low end want they will upgrade. They have been sitting on what their using for many many years now.

    Current gen didn't really push up the minimum spec much. GPU/graphics have always been scalable. Hdd, CPU wasn't huge jumps compared to what pc's had at the time.

    If a game really needs an ssd to work, you won't be able to feasibly scale it down to work on a hdd.
     
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  14. BRiT

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    What percentage of those system stats are from China (or other extremely price sensitive regions)?
     
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  15. PSman1700

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    Well, i ment that the console hardware wouldn't differ much from AMD's offerings, not compared to Nvidia's. We don't know about the SSD solution but i'm sure there will be something similar on pc/xbox that's as fast or faster (huge amounts of main ram, weve been stuck on small amounts too long). Perhaps PS5 is going to have 16GB of ram and then that SSD would be needed.
    There's a reason no amount of money can fix load times on any platform today, but late 2020 might see improved software solutions. Read speeds are close to 8GB/s already now. A better software stack could fix alot.
     
  16. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    :nope: Fundamentally your end-to-end bandwidth is limited to the narrowest path. No software can change that and you can't just re-invent PC architecture. Xbox can also radically toss out the conventional architecture everything else is predicated on.
     
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  17. PSman1700

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    I think you are wrong if you really think nothing else will match the PS5's storage solution, anyways we don't even know what will be in there, maybe let's wait and see how things will turn out.
     
  18. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    I could indeed be wrong. That said super fast storage is already an option on PC as is shoving in vast amounts of RAM. But there are innate bottlenecks that fast solid state storage and RAM can't overcome and that's the fact that a PC is a bunch of external buses connected over a bunch of internal buses - and this design is fundamental to the PC architecture being so flexible and extensible. Getting data from storage to the GPU is bottlenecked, as is shuttling data and back forth between the CPU, GPU and their respective RAM pools.

    These are bottlenecks consoles do not have to live with, they can be engineered out. You can have insane bandwidth storage feeding directly into RAM used by both the CPU and GPU and this is pretty much my take from what Mark Cerny said in his first Wired interview and so ably demonstrated by the Spider-Man tech demo running on a PS5 devkit.

    Not an apples-to-apples comparison but trying whizzing through GTA V on PC at anything like the speed demonstrated on the leaked footage. Even on the most powerful PC hardware, it falls into a stuttering mess pretty damn quickly because you just can't pull data off storage and feed the game engine and GPU fast enough.
     
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  19. PSman1700

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    PS5 will most likely get amd's pci gen 4, Cerny was carefull by noting that ps5 will be faster then current pc tech in may, which was/is at gen 3.
    Non-replacable storage seems risky too. Their touting 8k 120fps, RT and ssd loading, mosly hyping as they should, but to say it's going to crush even future tech could leave one dissapointed. That's why i like DF, they are more conservative and realistic on the whole thing.
     
  20. DSoup

    DSoup meh
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    Maybe. You were talking about "improved software solutions" making things better, I assume you meant current PCs. PCIe 4.x will make future PCs and future components designed to support the standard perform better overall. Anybody who already has a PC, or is buying one now, isn't going to experience some revolutionary benefit from improved software because the constraints are in hardware.
     
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