New [H] editorial...

Reverend said:
Good to read this at HardOCP.

Not sure if this is a calculated or arranged move (and if you don't know what I mean, I'm not about to post my, er, suspicions in a public forum) but it really shouldn't matter since the editorial is there for all to read.
I agree. It's good, but it could be a scam too. :(

If nVidia comes out today and admits the errors of their ways since Kyle showed them the light and swears never to sin again, I for one will personally not be surprised..."outraged", "livid", & "ranty-shouty" are more terms that come to mind. ;)

EDITED BITS: This post stood out to me:
Kyle at H said:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by SacLANd
thanks for the link, in fact i hate to say but i stopped looking at the Hocp homepage because i find the same info here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



We know, that is why we drop the links in here. It is all good though.

He knows? He noticed that his frontpage hits are disappearing and people are only going to his forums?

And he then does what everyone asks him to do....

(Yeah, I'm the overly paranoid type lately. ;) )
 
Reverend said:
I think it's nice that Kyle finally saw some light...
That's what I meant about my "suspicions"... I truly hope Kyle "saw the light" himself. But don't let my maybe-silly-maybe-totally-untrue suspicions cloud the fact that Kyle said what he said in his article.

Pure speculation here but I am guessing since [H] have recently (for the past 7 months or so) demonstrated a blatant bias towards nVidia, they have lost their usefulness as a nVidia PR tool. This editorial is a premeditated attempt to regain [H] credibility.

Edited for grammar.
 
Well Nvidia's next product release wil have 3dmark hardware acceleration built in to. Seriously , Nvidia probably received working silicon recently that had good performance in 3dmark and have decided it suits their purpose again.


In regards to Kyle
"Forgive but don't forget!"
Don't forget the mass bannings.
Posting of personal information and suggesting ppl. submit there email addresses to pornographic sites.
Don't forget Dave being banned !
Don't forget how he went to other Forums such as Rage 3d and taunted members.

This list is could be near endless. Being blind to Nvidia cheating is only one of the many revolting behaviors Kyle has exhibited. "Don't be so harsh in judging him" should be balanced by "Don't forgot the past so quickly"
 
worm[Futuremark said:
]
K.I.L.E.R said:
3dmark 2003 (NOT 2K3, some of you guys need to learn engineering notation) is used to measure a video card's architecture and compare it against other architectures.

3dmark 2001 is a system benchmark.
FYI, it's not 3dmark 2k3, but not 2003 either. It's simply 3DMark03! ;)
For your information "Mr.Smarty-pants", it's '3dm2k3'. :rolleyes:





































;) :p

Killer, was it you I had the "2k3 does NOT equal 2003!" argument with?
 
Wow! This is a funny article!

Kyle and [H] after completely playing the role of PR/IHV puppet, blind to all facts and reality, harshly disposing of and censoring all reality from their readerships eyes, and going to absolutely all ends necessary to push NVIDIA products throughout all the product releases/review cycles is now trying to revert back to reality?

It's WAY too late! The plan/agenda and project set forth by NVIDIA was to puppeteer sites like [H] to soil and obfuscate the product release/review cycle in order to gain sales. Simple reality. [H] participated fully and did so with zeal and willingness, pulling out all the stops towards this end. It's all over now. The mission was completed with flying colors. The object was to soil and taint and all goals were achieved.

This reminds me of prisoners of war waving a flag of surrender while they sit in jail. It's too late- the battles are all long over.
 
indio said:
<snip>....

In regards to Kyle
"Forgive but don't forget!"
Don't forget the mass bannings.
Posting of personal information and suggesting ppl. submit there email addresses to pornographic sites.
Don't forget Dave being banned !
Don't forget how he went to other Forums such as Rage 3d and taunted members.

This list is could be near endless. Being blind to Nvidia cheating is only one of the many revolting behaviors Kyle has exhibited. "Don't be so harsh in judging him" should be balanced by "Don't forgot the past so quickly"


Agree, he is 50% redeemed for his actions ;) I am still waiting for the apologies to the readers and reinstatement of the banned into the fold......


Brent
 
brent_anderson said:
indio said:
<snip>....

In regards to Kyle
"Forgive but don't forget!"
Don't forget the mass bannings.
Posting of personal information and suggesting ppl. submit there email addresses to pornographic sites.
Don't forget Dave being banned !
Don't forget how he went to other Forums such as Rage 3d and taunted members.

This list is could be near endless. Being blind to Nvidia cheating is only one of the many revolting behaviors Kyle has exhibited. "Don't be so harsh in judging him" should be balanced by "Don't forgot the past so quickly"


Agree, he is 50% redeemed for his actions ;) I am still waiting for the apologies to the readers and reinstatement of the banned into the fold......


Brent
Gotta agree with that, I still can't post there. :)
 
Well well well.

A sudden epiphany has occurred. Suddenly all of us that got banned turned out to be correct.

Question is will Kyle come clean and reinstate those he banned for being correct and honest and truthful. Will his ego allow that?
 
As of last night, using NVIDIA’s new driver set, we were not able to turn on true Trilinear Filtering in UT2K3. We went to NVIDIA and asked about this. They explained that we had never been told what we thought we had been told. It seemed to turn into a semantics game

You know we talked about this, him being played...we were not the 'bad guys'. The only reason why the article was written was because of the above situation. Nvidia promised Kyle full Trilinear and he actually expected them to listen to him, and lose all their benchmarks in UT 2003...not going to happen :LOL:

The article is overdue, but it is a start anyways.
 
It's good to see him finally acknowledge his errors in judgement . I do agree with Kyle in regards to Nvidia going back to FM though. Or rather I should say how do you ally yourself with a company you just tore down and attempted to discredit? It seems to be a hypocritical thing to do IMO.

It's hard to take someone seriously if they don't maintain an objective POV on subjects, and Kyle has shown that he has not remained objective. His responsability is to his readers, not to Nvidia, so he may feel betrayed by Nvidia, but it makes me wonder how his readers feel about him. :oops: Code of ethics aside, I still go to his site, but I take a salt shaker with me now. :LOL:
 
Kyle should have done this long ago. No way am I going to congratulate him for doing what should have been done in the first place.

Funny, for months he labeled anyone who pointed out these cheats and "optimizations" as fanboys who should be banned from his forums. Now that Nvidia has personally pissed him off he goes on this rant. Where was this rant when Nvidia was defrauding his readers with their cheats as Kyle sat by and defended them?

Kyle owes a HUGE apology to his readers. Period.
 
Whether you like the guy or not, this is a good thing for the community. We smaller sites (mostly this one ;)) have been aware of this for a long time but never had the voice or the clout that [H] has. But now that Kyle has turned around, hopefully it'll bring some new awareness to the sad state of NVIDIA, drivers, and benchmarking.

I'm grateful for that.

However, this sort of outlash we have seen before. Anyone remember the whole CPL fiasco @ [H]? It's the same sort of thing here. Kyle feels crossed by NVIDIA and he lashes out leveraging his biggest weapon: his site and his community.

I have to say, I'm pleasantly pleased to see the [H] take some shots at NVIDIA. Perhaps NVIDIA will finally smarten up and produce products that are worth the money paid.

One thing that makes me wonder however, what do the licensees think of all this? Abit has been vocal these days on political issues, don't they have an opinion as to what NVIDIA is doing? What about DELL? Certainly this bad press can't be helping their bottom line. How come we don't see any licensees or large OEM companies leaning on NVIDIA? Seems like it's only the community making noise and no one else.

- Jonathan.
 
How come we don't see any licensees or large OEM companies leaning on NVIDIA? Seems like it's only the community making noise and no one else.

The internet 'community' makes up a very small portion on sales overall...and large OEMs only care if they sell. There is little 'ethics' in big business...the only time Dell would say something if the part is faulty and costs THEM money.
 
Absolutely. And I'm baffled some people are still falling for it.

How can there be any such thing as 50% regaining of respect for a mission set out and accomplished? Kyle and [H] have completed their mission in every way, so I'd expect this kind of rebuttal after the fact, but a bit confused by those that aren't able to figure out the reality.

Marketing lives by increasing returns. It's a goal of IHVs with new product releases. This goal is to get a new product momentum on the market since once this momentum is established, it's fairly hard to slow down. It's the same old story as the old VHS/Beta debate, even though Beta was technically superior.

Figure Car A and Car B are released and assume both are equal. If a consumer goes out and randomly buys Car A, when he gets it home, more people are exposed to Car A and therefore rules of increasing returns may give Car A additional sales (which in turn improves the effect). Car A has been given the momentum to likely surpass Car B, even though both are assumed equal. It's standard marketing practice.. and in the case of Beta/VHS, the one with the initial momentum was even inferior to the previous.

The current generation of video hardware relies on the same kind of marketing momentum, but with the side effect of manipulation by the IHV. Kyle/[H] participated in this manipulation and has done so throughout the entire product release, preview and review process. Other websites did this during the preview/pre-release process, but fell back during the review process due to moral implications or felt the manipulation was too obvious or insulted the intelligence of the consumer. [H] stuck to the program and continued to form the agenda.

It is just silly now that the entire product preview, release, review cycle has been totally manipulated... (as in long, long Game Over) to then go back and try to take the opposite standpoint. People should be more intelligent than to suddenly think it's "okay" to participate in such agenda, then months after the fact to think an appology will regain confidence and re-establish the source as being somewhat trustworthy. The deals have been done. The mission/goal was completed 100%.

The only way Kyle/[H] can regain confidence is for the next generation of hardware to be unbiased or without agenda/IHV manipulation. There is absolutely nothing that can be done now that the whole process is over to objectively regain this. From the standpoint of manipulating initial product launch/IHV agenda, it has been done to completion.. and still stands on his pages unchanged.
 
Doomtrooper said:
The internet 'community' makes up a very small portion on sales overall...and large OEMs only care if they sell. There is little 'ethics' in big business...the only time Dell would say something if the part is faulty and costs THEM money.
Yes, but the 'community' is what people listen to when they really want to know what-the-what is...and I DO feel that word-o-mouth on how lousy the 5200s are will catch up with nVidia and bite-em-in-the-arse!

We are a little, tiny portion of their sales...but out of curiousity how many times a day are you asked for advice on what video card to get? :LOL:
 
Doomtrooper said:
How come we don't see any licensees or large OEM companies leaning on NVIDIA? Seems like it's only the community making noise and no one else.

The internet 'community' makes up a very small portion on sales overall...and large OEMs only care if they sell. There is little 'ethics' in big business...the only time Dell would say something if the part is faulty and costs THEM money.

Well DELL is selling more and more PCs using the 3DMark benchmark. They're also marketing Dimension PCs towards gamers too. You'd think that using marketing material based on tainted data would make DELL a little squeemish (could be false advertising? :?: ).

I certainly think this is costing Dell money... but perhaps not enough to be worried about.

Update:
Just took a stroll through the Dell support forums... no chatter about Kyle's editorial there.
 
Re: Well well well.

Yonex said:
<snip>.... Will his ego allow that?

That is the real question. Kyle's ego got him into this. Let’s see if it will let him get out!

Kyle needs to swallow a little pride, apologize to the readers, and have a mass un-banning fest ;) , and maybe grow a little bit in the process. IHHO, it would go a long way in reestablishing his credibility in the community.

I think the "other" WWW sites have made an effort to clean up the personal attacks in the forums, not to the extremes that the [H] goes to, (thank god), but at least keeping it civil.

That was brought about by people who disagreed with Kyle's position on the whole NVIDIA thing, (some got banned for it! ), but still listening to his complaints, agreeing with them, and taking action.

Now it is his turn to listen and act.

I DO NOT want him and the [H] to turn into another Tom Pabst/Tom’s Hardware site ;) .

Brent
 
CorwinB said:
Unless proven wrong, I'll take this article at face value and believe that Kyle realized what was wrong with Nvidia.
....

That's the way I take it, and I do applaud him for finally figuring out some pretty obvious things...but when I say "applause" I mean it in the sense of applauding a slow ten-year-old who's had four years of lessons but has only just managed to learn how to read his first complete paragraph...;)

My own take is that what really served as a bucket of cold water and brought him out of his trance was the revelation that nVidia's rejoining the FutureMark beta program. I think the allusions to the failure to fix UT2K3's trilinear was actually only a subtext to his real issue here--realizing that despite what nVidia's been assuring him of privately the company has its own agenda which does not include consultation with [H] (or getting clearance from [H].) It reminds me of the old saw about the husband being the last to know that his wife's been cheating with everybody in town...;) He's discovered that nVidia's not actually "listening to him" at all. That was the proverbial straw.

Nevertheless it is refreshing to hear him make forthright commentary on these issues at last. Whatever the reason he woke up, I'm glad he did. Better late than never. I don't see the need for further apology--admitting he's been set up as a dupe until now is apology enough for me.
 
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