New [H] editorial...

Discussion in 'Graphics and Semiconductor Industry' started by 5150 Joker, Aug 12, 2003.

  1. 5150 Joker

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  2. Quitch

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    Oh praise the Lord! ;)
     
  3. 5150 Joker

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    LOL I thought I was the only one that got a laugh out of that comment. :)
     
  4. spacy9

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    I think that Kyle honestly thought that Nvidia was going to start making things better, starting with being able to turn on true Trilinear filtering in the new version of the Dets. However, they apparently had been lying to him the whole time and he is seeing them for what they really are, and he's pissed that they strung him along - and that he believed them.

    Just my two cents...
     
  5. Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.

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    He still tried to sound reasonable, still making swipes at 3Dmark, but that's because he still can't quite reach beyond the Nvidia propoganda and into the truth of what happened. He can't quite admit the full facts to himself, but maybe he is getting there.

    Now what I said a long time ago has happened. Now it's convenient for Nvidia, they have cut Kyle loose, and he's come to the realisation that the has been played for a chump. Kyle parotted the Nvidia party line while Nvidia themselves stayed silent. Now Nvdia can disassociate themselves from all the words that came via [H], and it leaves Kyle looking like a fool.

    The next question is how big a patsy Kyle wants to be. I'm sure Nvidia PR will be on the phone to him today, trying to smooth things over, making more promises, saying it's company policy and not their fault. Will Kyle be taken in again, or has he finally seen the light?
     
  6. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
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    He's done pretty much what everyone asked him to do - write about some of the elements that we know are wrong outside of the forums. Sure there were some things in there that he obviously still believes, but he's taken a stance on the actual issues and that should be applauded.
     
  7. Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.

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    It's a start, but as one of the main Nvidia supporters, he's got a long way to go before he balances out the damage he has done.

    If sites like [H] had supported the truth of what was going on with Nvidia cheats in 3DMark, instead of supporting their friends at Nvidia, maybe Nvidia wouldn't have set the lawyers on Futuremark, and maybe Futuremark wouldn't have felt the need to capitulate. Maybe the situation would be quite different now, without having the whole state of industry benchmarking dragged into the gutter with Nvidia's non-existent principles.

    EDIT: I've just re-read Kyle's editorial. He's not upset at what is a betrayal of the community, he's upset at what is a betrayal of Kyle! Nice to see his ego still isn't dented! :roll:
     
  8. Reverend

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    Good to read this at HardOCP.

    Not sure if this is a calculated or arranged move (and if you don't know what I mean, I'm not about to post my, er, suspicions in a public forum) but it really shouldn't matter since the editorial is there for all to read.
     
  9. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
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    Yeah, I do wonder the same as well.
     
  10. incurable

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    I think it's nice that Kyle finally saw some light and I agree with Bouncing Zabaglione Bros., this editorial is about his own hurt feelings, nothing else, nothing more.

    Much more important than this local outbreak of reality in Texas is how he'll treat the nVidia's products in the future. IMHO, that'll show if he's genuinly concerned about his readers and their money.

    cu

    incurable
     
  11. Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.

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    You think this is a pre-arranged lead-in for Nvidia to come out and see "Gee guys, we're *really sorry* and we *promise not to do it again*. We're nice guys really - look, we've even rejoined Futuremark" ?

    If so it's too little, too late. Try bringing out drivers that don't cheat. Try bringing out hardware with good IQ and good speed. Try doing something more than just upping the clock speed and whacking on a hairdryer. Try spending money on hardware design instead of marketing BS. Stop talking and bring us good products instead of lies and slow/hot/noisy/cheating/poor IQ hardware.
     
  12. Reverend

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    That's what I meant about my "suspicions"... I truly hope Kyle "saw the light" himself. But don't let my maybe-silly-maybe-totally-untrue suspicions cloud the fact that Kyle said what he said in his article.
     
  13. CorwinB

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    Unless proven wrong, I'll take this article at face value and believe that Kyle realized what was wrong with Nvidia.

    What remains :
    - Kyle doesn't like 3DMark scores, but recognizes that some people use them. Fair enough. He even uses the "C." word.
    - Kyle thinks the UT2K3 "false trilinear" doesn't distract from gaming experience (fair enough, although different people are affected by different IQ settings), but feels that users should be able to select full trilinear if they choose to. I think pretty much everyone agrees on this.
    - He thinks Nvidia rejoining FutureMark Beta program would be pathetic. I think most people agree here too... :)

    IMHO, the only thing missing is that Kyle assessed all blame to Nvidia, without questioning his own actions (his and the other "guys with webpages").

    Still a good move forward.
     
  14. Reverend

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    Not me. I think it is great that NVIDIA is back in the FM beta member fold. It is essential for a good and impartial FM benchmark application (regardless of how you view FM's benchmark applications, because we see its use), it is essential for a comprehensive-taking-opinions-from-all-sides approach to content development. Again, if you have never seen any value in 3DMark03 (for example), then this matters not a bit to you.

    Sidetracking a bit off topic : many of you guys don't see any value in 3DMark03 mainly because you say it doesn't represent how games are made (or doesn't represent games at all per se). While I don't disagree with this, I think that is missing the actual picture, much like missing the picture of using various purely synthetic tests. Many folks tell me :

    Well, yes, those stats do give you some results per se but it also may be giving us a glimpse of the future about why games look the way they do. In a year's time (or maybe two years' time), there will be games coming out bearing a "DX9 game!" advertisement and then folks will be saying "Gee, it doesn't look all that great...". Well, then perhaps it may be good to look back to such synthetic performance tests for the reason why this is so. Most likely it is becasue the synthetic test results show that a particular company's hardware isn't performing that great (in those specific synthetic tests) and this needs to be taken into account during game development. 3DMark03 however will show you what graphics (not games, but just graphics) can look like if many technologies are used, where performance considerations take a back seat (or is not even considered at all).

    Sorry if this is going off-topic... just felt like rambling a bit :)
     
  15. Seiko

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    hmm, interesting

    Why o why do I get the feeling Kyle and co are like a bunch of spoilt teenagers? The moment a company disagrees with them I see an article like this?

    Lets be honest, and I apologise for repeating whats already been said a dozen times, Kyle and co. made their own bed with nvidia? Now Nvidia has obviously decided to cut them loose they offer this! I would have much prefered to see the guys simply admit they'd been taken for a ride due to naitivity [and I'm being kind here ;)] and to post a piece clearly defining their review objectives etc and what they'll be doing to try and help protect the consumer from underhand tactics etc.

    Anyway, as others have said, its a start. Although I'd suspect this has more to do with Kyle and co. wanting to be the first with NV40 and being told nope. But hey, I guess I'm turing into a cynical old fart :roll: !

    ;)
     
  16. K.I.L.E.R

    K.I.L.E.R Retarded moron
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    3dmark 2003 (NOT 2K3, some of you guys need to learn engineering notation) is used to measure a video card's architecture and compare it against other architectures.

    3dmark 2001 is a system benchmark.
     
  17. Nick[FM]

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    FYI, it's not 3dmark 2k3, but not 2003 either. It's simply 3DMark03! :wink:
     
  18. Arun

    Arun Unknown.
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    Don't even think about understanding why nVidia does or say something anymore.
    If anything, I'd more pity nVidia of having made of confusion, both internal and external, what nearly seems to be a company policy.

    I wouldn't be surprised at all if Jen Hsun Huang *seriously* believed all the BS he said about their current product line, seeing how bad communication seems to be at nVidia.

    Just all IMO of course. That's based on things sources told me, and I may be seeing them in a much too exagerated light.
    But if you asked some nV employees, I wouldn't be surprised if they thought [H]'s editorial was still too kind... Although I don't know about most of them, and it's thus probably not true for most of them.


    Uttar
     
  19. Tim

    Tim
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    Even if Kyle is being honest about this he still has a lot to explain. He still owns ExtremeTech a full public apology (not an “I am sorry I made this statement in publicâ€￾ on a forum). The issue about him banning people left and right for disagreeing with him also still exists and the fact that they kept the UT2003 filtering issue secret for months (according to Kyle) while they continued to post reviews using it as a benchmark.

    I take the editorial as a step in right direction but only a step Kyle has a long way to go.
     
  20. MuFu

    MuFu Chief Spastic Baboon
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    Ooh.... that must have been a painful editorial to write. It's too little, too late but good to see nevertheless.

    At least he seems to have stopped avoiding the real issues. [​IMG]

    MuFu.
     
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