IIRC, Myamoto once said that a delayed game can eventually become good, but that a rushed game is bad forever...
New Forza 2 CG Trailer
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IIRC, Myamoto once said that a delayed game can eventually become good, but that a rushed game is bad forever...
They promised a heck of a lot more than just "better than PGR3" and even if they hadn't, they would be stupid to deliver anything but a clear leap past what PGR3 did.
They specifically showed media to impress and interest people. They completely failed to interest or impress me. That's the bottom line.
And given the reactions I'm reading across the 'net, I'm in the majority. That means MS's PR should be embarrassed. Say whatever you like, but it won't change the fact that Forza 2 just isn't impressing people as it should.
Would you have preferred PGR3's PR, where they release unrealistically detailed photoshop pictures of a few buildings and claim that's the detail level of the full game, and then deliver something that looks noticably worse?
Personally I've found a lot of the complainers are habitual complainers that say things like "nothing on the 360 is next-gen." Their complaints don't hold up to the physical evidence. Like you saying that they haven't shown a clear leap over PGR3.
http://i.i.com.com/cnet.g2/images/2005/319/reviews/927245_20051116_screen013.jpg
http://forzamotorsport.net/NR/rdonlyres/12749879-A901-44B7-98B4-35D06F49AB05/0/FM20905063.jpg
There is at least that much of a graphical difference and at twice the frame rate.
Personally I think Forza2 makes PGR3 look like an Xbox game.
Personally I've found a lot of the complainers are habitual complainers that say things like "nothing on the 360 is next-gen." Their complaints don't hold up to the physical evidence. Like you saying that they haven't shown a clear leap over PGR3.
http://i.i.com.com/cnet.g2/images/2005/319/reviews/927245_20051116_screen013.jpg
http://forzamotorsport.net/NR/rdonlyres/12749879-A901-44B7-98B4-35D06F49AB05/0/FM20905063.jpg
There is at least that much of a graphical difference and at twice the frame rate.
Personally I think Forza2 makes PGR3 look like an Xbox game.
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I don't think this is really the case. Maybe at places like GAF, where they have fun doing things like that, but not in general. There seems to be a community "meh" on this one, coming from xbox boards, the forza boards, and places like this.
I consider myself to be an Xbox fan and I'm not impressed. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt because it is supposed to be 60 fps and has twice the cars in the race that PGR3 has, but it clearly isn't living up to its promises.
I loved Forza 1, it was (along with PGR2) my favourite racing game ever. Fond memories, Every time, I'm listening Elton John, Dido, or Boomtown rats "I don't like mondays", etc etc, I remember that game (because of the custom soundtrack). I don't care if they delay the game, if it's for good, the more time the better, so I expect a big improvement over Forza 1, as long as they keep their promises...
That doesn't mean that a picture like this -link- is not disappointing, as all the pics they sent to official magazines look decent, except one:
http://images.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/4062/847_0007.jpg
Look at the grey "triangle"
A fake would look better.
__________________________________________________________________________
"Unlucky in games, lucky in love"
That doesn't mean that a picture like this -link- is not disappointing, as all the pics they sent to official magazines look decent, except one:
http://images.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/4062/847_0007.jpg
Look at the grey "triangle"
A fake would look better.__________________________________________________________________________
"Unlucky in games, lucky in love"
You've got a point with those shots - however I don't think that's the most flatering pgr3 shot. If you can picture what that forza shot would look like with even billboard grass it would improve the image quality greatly as everything else in the shot looks great. Sure the asphalt texture is low res and could be higher but the other tire fx on top help make the ground texture a bit less important. Really we'd have to see this game in motion to properly judge it but hey guys at least its running 720 native!
No, it's not, but it is a country environment making it similar to the Forza shot, and it's from the final build of the game, so that is how the real PGR3 graphics look.
The Forza shot is an early Beta build, not exactly material for the most flattering shot of that game either.
I don't find either very impressive. =(
But PGR3 was rushed (poor bastards, imagine the pressure)
And FM2 is obviously (to me) far from completion. If by chance the game does release looking like that it will be a huge embarrassment considering what Polyphony will likely produce with GTV. It will be like sicking a poodle on a sherman tank. Better to just cancel the game. That's in a nutshell why I'm confident that FM2 will look way better once it's released. Releasing that up against GT Vision would be more harm than good. Imagine all the comparisons between mags and online pubs!!! It would be a bloodbath.
/hyperbole
But PGR3 was rushed (poor bastards, imagine the pressure)
And FM2 is obviously (to me) far from completion. If by chance the game does release looking like that it will be a huge embarrassment considering what Polyphony will likely produce with GTV. It will be like sicking a poodle on a sherman tank. Better to just cancel the game. That's in a nutshell why I'm confident that FM2 will look way better once it's released. Releasing that up against GT Vision would be more harm than good. Imagine all the comparisons between mags and online pubs!!! It would be a bloodbath.
/hyperbole
True but the lighting is very different in these shots. Overall I expect whatever the game ends up looking like it won't impress as most have an idea for what they expect this title to look like based on their own idea for what Forza on 360 should look like coupled with the devs comments of 60fps 720 4xaa and hdr and you have a recipe for dissapointment. looking at the game on its own merits though I'd say the title will compete well and depending on when gt5 comes out it will probably compete well with polyphonys title too.
I guess you are the same guy on another forum who posted these yesterday. Like I said then: You past over dozens of quality screenshots from PGR3 to get to that one. Obviously different game conditions and camera angles.
As for your other points they are all void because Dan said it would be far and away better visually than PGR3 (why? Because PGR3 is a launch title) which they failed at. Further, he said they would get close to the CGI, which they failed at. They also don't have basic effects like HDR, spherical harmonics, 3D animated grass, etc. Texturing is poor in the shots and the title obviously looks average at best -- hence the delay.
Of course I would not expect you of all people to say anything different, but it is pretty clear that FM2 is a huge dissappointment. But we should have expected this after 5 months of CGIs and no game footage and all this hype from Turn 10 themselves. They dug their own grave on this.
If they want to save face they can spend the next 7-9 months showing, step by step, how a next gen title progresses. Show vehicles in successive order every couple weeks: Wire frames, textured, normal mapped, ambient occlusion maps, GI hack, HDR, soft shadowing, self shadowing, per pixel realtime reflections, specular highlights, etc
They could save some face there. The fact I can play Trackmania, a free PC game, with my 6800GT with 3D animated grass tells us a lot: This title is VERY early still. Of course FM1 came out in May 2005, so they are like 15 months into development. They would have been smarter to have announced the delay and not have shown anything until ready.
Of course like every issue we can see where people stand. The platform fans defend it to the death (see: Motorstorm, where the devs claimed the CGI was realtime) and everyone else with half a brain realised, "Uhhh this is NOT what was promised and NFS and Burnout give it a run, let alone PGR3". Not what you expect from a AAA franchise from a 1st party.
Who says those are the only two options? Gosh, when did synapses become a rarity.
Do you know what habitual complainers do when a clearly impressive game shows? They shut up. Or they post obviously insane attempts at discouragement. I've seen neither of those happening. You?
I'm not a complainer about anything, and I'm certainly not biased towards Sony or Nintendo. These shots are simply not impressive. I shouldn't need to pull out PGR3 to convince myself. I should just have to look at one shot and be impressed. It's not like racing games are a difficult genre to impress with, you know. Continue debating, but first impression is over. MS blew it. First impressions are not about logic and reason.
On the other hand, the 360 has a lot racers already. No need to rush this, and I don't think they will. It's a big name for them.
Having said that, I'm still not convinced it's going to be a 2007 title.
scooby_dooby
Legend
You should post some, as I've spent a decent chunk of time scouring for quality framebuffer grabs of PGR3 and cannot find anything decent, that gamespot one is obviously an anlogue crap capture.
It would be nice to see a good, direct feed capture of the PGR3 ingame model, I think some would be surprised. It's the scenery and lighting/reflections that really make the game sexy, if you look at the better of the Forza 2 screens, the ones with the Black G35 which look to be ingame, the only thing it's really lacking is better lighting on the car, and better scenery, including the grass, road etc, granted you can only see the back of the car
MasterDisaster
Regular
ok there're no direct feed screens, but in my opinion is clear that the lightining of PGR3 anche the detail of tracks was tons better
'grabbed by a video'
'grabbed by a video'
-=P3tRaN=-
Regular
wow! one must try real hard to get such an ugly picture out of PGR3.
edit:
here are some regular in-game shots, so that you wont jump to the conclusion mat anymore.
edit:
here are some regular in-game shots, so that you wont jump to the conclusion mat anymore.
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scooby_dooby
Legend
Oh I agree, I'm referring specifically to the vehicle models.
I think this puppy just needs some next gen lighting, and an overhaul on the scenery and it would look sweet. It's ALL about the lighting imo.
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=67352
And, like I've posted before, IGN has listed November for launch. Plus we know they've been testing for some time now...
*crosses fingers*
And, like I've posted before, IGN has listed November for launch. Plus we know they've been testing for some time now...
*crosses fingers*
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I'm with you but after the last batch of screenshots it may be better if they wait. I'd like to think they've got something up their sleeve and are going to blow everyone away at TGS or X06 but i think we're slowly seeing that when there's smoke there's usually some fire...
EDIT: Damn i forgot how awesome PGR3 looks. I wonder if they'll add anything to the SE version with the racing wheel...
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