New Apple TV

[rapso]

50% faster? The Tegra X1 in the Shield TV is 3x faster than the A8. Plus, nVidia is probably asking for quite a premium over the Shield TV because they definitely can't get even a fraction of the volume orders of the Apple TV.

sorry, I haven't looked up the actual numbers. I wanted to make the obvious point: better hardware has higher cost. either the consumer pays for it or the manufacturer. and really, would any consumer know? ask some random person to sort

Amazon FireTV
Apple TV 2015
Google Nexus Player
ShieldTV

by performance. They'll probably move apple to the top (even if it was just an A6) and the rest would be sorted by popularity, ShieldTV might end up last. Even NVidia renamed it from Shield Console to ShieldTV, because that's the mindset and focus of those who want to buy such a device.
Sure, there are tech ppl who'd know tech details, but those most likely have a console for gaming.

I'd think going from 1080p output to 4k will sell way more than any fancy hardware inside.

 

[tangey]

Maybe because they can't have anything better?

Again, it appears Apples priority is TV/ PPV/ live sport converage. Apple has demonstrated in the past that if they want to push the envelope in graphics, they do. They clearly didn't want to do so on this TV product for whatever reason. So they put the graphics performance in it accordingly.

 

[davygee]

Well duh, this new apple TV will be in the market a full year after the next-youngest of the three, which is the Nexus Player.
Moreover, "by far" is a bit of a stretch, since we're talking about a GX6450 in the A8 against the GX6430 in the Nexus Player's Moorestown.

Well isn't it like comparing an iPhone 5s to an iPhone 6? Seeing as the 5s has the GX6430. If that is the case, then we are seeing a minimum of 50% increase on off-screen, so to me, thats quite a difference. Again, remember it's fixed at 1080p, so thats all it needs to render.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Even for TV only, Apple isn't really being forward-thinking given the lack of HEVC/4K decoding hardware.

nVidia's Shield TV actually stands as one of the cheapest ways to get 4K from Netflix, for example.

 

[davygee]

I'd think going from 1080p output to 4k will sell way more than any fancy hardware inside.

4k will sell more eventually, but we are talking years away before we have enough people that own TV's or projectors that can show 4k, and then we need to talk about content.

I can see us in 2 years still talking about 4k and when it will come in properly. Remember how long HD took to come to fruition?

 

[davygee]

Don't forget that there are still people viewing content in Standard Definition, so they still haven't made the jump to HD.

 

[tangey]

Even for TV only, Apple isn't really being forward-thinking given the lack of HEVC/4K decoding hardware.

nVidia's Shield TV actually stands as one of the cheapest ways to get 4K from Netflix, for example.

I'll think you'll find they are being very forward thinking. They just think differently than you. In their terms, leaving out 4K is a call that they deliberately make, deciding perhaps that it is not a compelling feature to have today in a product aimed at mass market (as opposed to leading edge market), but will be a good added new feature by the time they get around to ATV5 or whatever.

So basically, leave it as a feature for next gen.

 

[rapso]

4k will sell more eventually, but we are talking years away before we have enough people that own TV's or projectors that can show 4k, and then we need to talk about content.

I was not talking about content, but about the mind set of people. if you'd tell them one device has an Adreno 330 the other an Adreno 430, most would just assume "higher number is probably better". but if there is some "4K" sticker on the package, they know it's capable to output super awesome cutting edge movies... so they'd choose the Adreno 330 with 4k over the 430 with 1080p, even if they don't have a 4k TV (yet (tm) ).

I can see us in 2 years still talking about 4k and when it will come in properly. Remember how long HD took to come to fruition?

just as we talk in 2 years about how sucky the A9x in the new apple TV is, while it could have the A11.
I guess we'll need to wait until we know how smooth frogger runs on an A11.


is there actually any high end game that pushes GFX? Infinity blade was like the last one that was marketed for GFX (at least that I'm aware of), on mobile.

 

[davygee]

Yes you are right. Being 4k ready is a seller for some. Just like these people that are spending £1000 on an UltraHD TV right now, when they can't view much on it at all to warrant having a 4k TV, and by the time when we have a decent amount of content, the TV will be ready to be replaced or will have already kicked the bucket.

 

[tangey]

is there actually any high end game that pushes GFX? Infinity blade was like the last one that was marketed for GFX (at least that I'm aware of), on mobile.

They demoed some high end game for the ipad pro, which looked pretty good, with the developer saying they switched on a load of stuff they previous had to keep disabled.

 

[pcchen]

I think for normal games A8 is powerful. It's the same CPU in iPhone 6+, which has even higher logical resolution than an Apple TV. If iPhone 6+ is able to handle games like Vainglory, it shouldn't be a problem for Apple TV considering it has more RAM and probably doesn't throttle. As for party games, I think it's still something to be explored. The most played Wii games in my home are actually not much related to the motion controller, but simple party games.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

UHD TVs don't cost £1000 anymore. That was 2 years ago.

I'll think you'll find they are being very forward thinking. They just think differently than you.

You're right. I guess I'm just inherently incompatible with the concept of trying to trick my customers into buying a product now and its successor a year from now.

 

[McHuj]

I'm kind of surprised by the lack of 4K playback on the new AppleTV; mainly, because 4K recording was a big bullet point of the new iPhones. The iPhone doesn't have a 4K display, neither does the iPad. The only 4K capable display Apple offers is their 5K iMac (the rest will have to downsample) and that's probably a low volume seller.

I hoped the AppleTV was going to be sold as a way for you to watch your 4K videos from your iPhone.

 

[wco81]

One thing to remember is that iTunes Store isn't selling 4k content yet.

Maybe with the release of UHD Blu Ray later this year or early next year, plus whatever 4k content the studios make available to Netflix and Amazon, iTunes will catch up and Apple will have more incentive to upgrade their devices for 4k playback.

Also it may be the case that the first 4k content available consists of original shows from Netflix and Amazon. IOW, content that they own and don't have to license specifically for 4k versions. Of course Apple doesn't own any content.

I'd be more inclined to buy Apple TV with 4k support for 4k display of my photos on a 4k screen. They also showed some great 1080p screen savers shot in super slow mo that looked great. No doubt they'll commission or license similar content in 4k when they have a 4k product to sell.

One positive thing about waiting is that the UHD Blu-Ray standard was only finalized in the last month or two. So they can support the different HDR and HFR modes which are part of that standard, as well as things like Dolby Atmos and whatever the DTS counterpart is.

 

[Entropy]

I'm kind of surprised by the lack of 4K playback on the new AppleTV; mainly, because 4K recording was a big bullet point of the new iPhones. The iPhone doesn't have a 4K display, neither does the iPad. The only 4K capable display Apple offers is their 5K iMac (the rest will have to downsample) and that's probably a low volume seller.

I hoped the AppleTV was going to be sold as a way for you to watch your 4K videos from your iPhone.

This is a very valid point. The only people I know who are very interested in 4K are people who film in it, my movie buff friends seem less interested. But apple is neither providing the source material or the end display - it isn't really a priority for them. AppleTV isn't a cutting edge device - just a reasonably inexpensive and smooth portal to content.

I look forward to seeing clocks on the AppleTV A8, it did grow fatter, and there is bound to be some reason for that.

 

[iMacmatician]

Ars Technica reports that the iPad mini 4 has a 1.5 GHz A8 with 2 GB RAM, which is a slight clock speed bump over the A8 in the iPhone 6.

I suspected such a thing after I saw the performance claims of the iPad mini 4's A8 over the A7.

iPad mini 4

CPU: 1.3x faster
Graphics: 1.6x faster
Compared to A7

The A8 in the iPhone 6 was initially advertised as CPU 1.25x and GPU 1.5x relative to the A7. Sure, there could be differences in testing as well as other factors, but a clock speed bump also seemed probable. I also expect a 5%-10% increase in GPU clock speed in this A8 for the same reason.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Apple TV has the same clock speeds as the iPad mini 4, especially when the RAM amounts match.

 

[Arnold Beckenbauer]

iPad Mini 4’s A8 clocks upto 1,5 GHz:
http://www.macrumors.com/2015/09/15/ipad-mini-4-faster-a8-2gb-ram/

This video can be played on iPhone 6 with Infuse: http://images.apple.com/media/us/ip...350/camera/4k-download/iPhone6s_4K_Sample.mov
It’s from here:

http://www.apple.com/de/iphone-6s/cameras/

Apple kills gaming on Apple TV:

http://toucharcade.com/2015/09/15/apple-tv-games-must-be-playable-with-the-remote/

I think I got it: Apps, that support MFi controllers, must support the remote for eg menue etc.

 

[ltcommander.data]

https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/iPad+Mini+4+Teardown/48891

So the iPad Mini 4's 2 GB RAM continues to be packaged together with the CPU like other A8 and not soldered separately on the motherboard like the 2 GB of the iPad Air 2. iFixit links to Hynix 1866 MHz LPDDR3 memory, but the "-NT" silkscreen on the iPad Mini 4's A8 indicates that Apple sadly continues to use 1600 MHz LPDDR3. A modest bump to 1866 MHz memory would have been a nice gesture toward compensating for the half as wide memory bus compared to the iPad Air 2's A8X.

I believe the 3rd gen Apple TV had it's RAM separated on the motherboard so I suppose the new Apple TV will continue this and be different than the iPad Mini 4. There's probably little chance that the Apple TV will get faster RAM though.

 

[Lazy8s]

A new Fire TV was announced which equips MediaTek's MT8173: A72s (big.LITTLE 2x2 @ 2GHz with a pair of A53s @ ~1.6 GHz) and a Series 6XT GPU. Appears to mark the debut of both the A72 and a Series 6XT implementation outside of Apple, just as Apple moves to Series 7 (but only in the iPhone/Pad, not their TV product.)

The new Apple TV's GX6450 @ ~500 MHz will definitely outperform the Fire TV's GX6250 @ 600 MHz, but the gap is certainly not as wide as it could've been. Not that the gaming functionality and capabilities of either device will play much of a role in their marketability.

 

[wco81]

New Fire TV is suppose to support 4K, which makes sense since Amazon is touting 4K content on their video service.

It says to get 4K, TVs have to have HDCP 2.2 but didn't list HDMI 2.0a. Thought those two go together.