MS releases public IE 7 beta

[carpediem]

Deleting browsing history (cookies, temp files, form data and passwords) is REALLY accessable now and it is done in background, so you can continue browsing when it's deleting it.



CSS standards support is VERY much improved now and security surpasses Firefox and Opera now especially in the later relased Vista where IE can be run with lower credentials. The antiphishing filter will help casual users to avoid getting scammed.

RSS is MUCH better than in Firefox.

Maxthon 2.0, which will support the IE7 engine of course will absolutely destroy the competition. I'm beta-testing so I've tested internal builds.

 

[Moloch]

wrong.
opera>*

 

[DemoCoder]

IE7 security > Firefox? Hahahaha. We'll see. I've been hearing the same story after every major MS security hole "we are seriously focusing the whole company on security", then, viola, more holes found. A never ending stream of them.

Explain how RSS support is better in IE7 than Firefox.

Broken features on GPUs led to those advertised features not being available to their paying owners. IE users (the vast majority for the past 6 years) did not experience any broken features or buggy sites, nor did they pay specifically for IE. This issue hasn't even come up until recently because of Firefox's relatively large adoption due to the insurge of malware and viruses using IE's vulnerabilities.

Number one, the issue of broken features is one for developers, not end users. It essentially means developers need multiple rendering paths and workarounds, and it is a huge problem with complicates game development. IE's various incarnations (4,5,6, and now 7, also, Mac IE's completely different rendering engine) vastly complicate web development, and this was long before Firefox existed.

We've gone over this plenty of times, about how shoddy SM2.0 implementations have held back game development and uptake of that technology, with the end result is that gamers are not seeing games that look as good as *they could have been*


This causes much pain for developers who want to take advantage of more powerful browser features to design more interactive websites (like Google Maps has done, and all of the other AJAX oriented sites) I don't think you have any idea of the level of extra effort that goes into making sure a website works in IE4, IE5, IE6, Mac IE, Firefox, and Safari. Developers are forced to punt: either they render everything to the lowest common denominator, or they have fallbacks for all of the bugs (primarily in IE versions). This is alleviate somewhat by cross-browser script layer frameworks, but it is a major pain in the ass to QA validate a website now.

I'd rather IE7 not change ANYTHING in their rendering engine until they are fully CSS compliant. All they've done is create yet ANOTHER rendering path: IE4, 5, 6, 7, and a hypothetical IE8 that is bug free.

The end result of Microsoft's shoddy coding practices is that truly innovative use of web standards like XHTML, CSS2, DOM2+, et al, has been delayed because MS has made it a pain to support by creating a huge legacy installed base of buggy, insecure, fucked up browsers.

 

[McDusty]

Opera innovates ... the others imitate!

Why would I start using Firefox or IE7 when I’ve been enjoying Opera for years and it has more built in features and it’s a smaller download than both?

 

[Snyder]

Opera innovates ... the others imitate!

Why would I start using Firefox or IE7 when I’ve been enjoying Opera for years and it has more built in features and it’s a smaller download than both?

The reason why I don't use Opera at the moment (although I have a paid full version!) is the fact that, while it has a lot of nifty features and is a great browser overall, if it lacks a feature you need, you can only hope they implement it in a future version.

A concrete example: Is it possible yet to change tab closing behaviour in Opera, i.e. which tab is displayed next when closing a tab?

When I'm browsing message boards, I usually open several threads in the background so that they are already loaded when I wish to read them. Now, in FF, when I close the tab with the first thread I've read, the next tab to the right, i.e. the next thread is displayed. In opera, the last tab, i.e. the board overview is displayed and I have to switch tabs manually - which is very annoying.
And I haven't found a way to change that behaviour in Opera. FF doesn't support changing it out of the box either AFAIK, but there are several extensions that do the job.

 

[Phil]

This causes much pain for developers who want to take advantage of more powerful browser features to design more interactive websites (like Google Maps has done, and all of the other AJAX oriented sites) I don't think you have any idea of the level of extra effort that goes into making sure a website works in IE4, IE5, IE6, Mac IE, Firefox, and Safari. Developers are forced to punt: either they render everything to the lowest common denominator, or they have fallbacks for all of the bugs (primarily in IE versions). This is alleviate somewhat by cross-browser script layer frameworks, but it is a major pain in the ass to QA validate a website now.

That's why it's useful to stay in stone-age when tackling the issues associated with web-design - i.e. Target the majority of users, which happens to be IE4-5 and a minimum resolution of 1024x768.

Sure, some of the newer function are nice, but do we really need them? If you want more interactive websites, Flash is the way to go and not kinky CSS/JavaScript workarounds, but that's just my humble opinion...

The lack of PNG24 support in I.E6 is annoying though, as are some other bugs.

As for the rest; It would make life a whole lot easier if we all browsers would be compliant and the only thing we'd be left worried about are different resolution targets. As long as I.E stays the dominant browser, I'm happy to stay in stone-age as I personally think this obsession on creating interactive websites is a downfall to most consumers since the content-creators of many sites lack the talent to know what looks good, is convinient, how information should be presented in a practical way. Creativity is good when you know how to use it - and that's sadly something the fewest of [web-] developers recognise and master.

 

[akira888]

I second everything Democoder says. I spent roughly six hours of my day Monday helping our design staff debug a template they created in FF/Moz, and looked quite fine there, yet was completely fucked up in Internet Explorer. Briefly, IE6 doesn't properly support the CSS properties of margin-left and margin-right in the #html selector object, and thus caused the whole layout to go wocky. (especially since they had far too many entities positioned with absolute coordinates but that's neither here nor there)

IE's CSS parser also has more than a few unexpected behaviors, particularly in its handling of invalid syntax.They really need to fix that before they add another snazzy UI or some other crap.

 

[_xxx_]

I'll never use IE in any instance/version ever again. Not even if it gives me a massage and makes me coffee every time I start it.

 

[NocturnDragon]

I'll never use IE in any instance/version ever again. Not even if it gives me a massage and makes me coffee every time I start it.

Yeah, me either! It'll make you crazy when you build a standard compliant xhtml page with css and so on in like half hour, then you need 3 hours understanding what specific IE bug is messing up the design that time!

P.S. Fortunately IE7{ css2: auto; } (not the one from ms) helps a lot! For all you web developers that still don't know about this script, take a look here http://dean.edwards.name/IE7/

 

[Blazkowicz]

The reason why I don't use Opera at the moment (although I have a paid full version!) is the fact that, while it has a lot of nifty features and is a great browser overall, if it lacks a feature you need, you can only hope they implement it in a future version.

A concrete example: Is it possible yet to change tab closing behaviour in Opera, i.e. which tab is displayed next when closing a tab?

When I'm browsing message boards, I usually open several threads in the background so that they are already loaded when I wish to read them. Now, in FF, when I close the tab with the first thread I've read, the next tab to the right, i.e. the next thread is displayed. In opera, the last tab, i.e. the board overview is displayed and I have to switch tabs manually - which is very annoying.
And I haven't found a way to change that behaviour in Opera. FF doesn't support changing it out of the box either AFAIK, but there are several extensions that do the job.

I agree, I find that tab focus behaviour unbearable, be it for forums or for a google request with lots of results, and such. That and the alien inteface (along with annoying stuff like ALT-D does not put me in adress bar) put me away from Opera.

 

[carpediem]

I agree, I find that tab focus behaviour unbearable, be it for forums or for a google request with lots of results, and such. That and the alien inteface (along with annoying stuff like ALT-D does not put me in adress bar) put me away from Opera.

You know you can have ALT+D focus the address field, and almost anything else if you cared to look in the options. You can change shortcuts and make macros for keyboard combination directly in the preferences.

You can also make opera focus next or previous tab if you so please... People just take so much for granted when it comes to features that opera _might_ lack.

 

[Natoma]

I second everything Democoder says. I spent roughly six hours of my day Monday helping our design staff debug a template they created in FF/Moz, and looked quite fine there, yet was completely fucked up in Internet Explorer. Briefly, IE6 doesn't properly support the CSS properties of margin-left and margin-right in the #html selector object, and thus caused the whole layout to go wocky. (especially since they had far too many entities positioned with absolute coordinates but that's neither here nor there)

IE's CSS parser also has more than a few unexpected behaviors, particularly in its handling of invalid syntax.They really need to fix that before they add another snazzy UI or some other crap.

I third. Developing for IE when complying to W3C standards is a nightmare.

 

[volt]

OT mode on: Natoma, I see you live pretty close to where I once was (Fresh Meadows)

 

[Natoma]

Yes you pointed that out in an earlier thread. I think we talked about it too.

[EDIT]

A ha!

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=220349&postcount=7

 

[volt]

Yes you pointed that out in an earlier thread. I think we talked about it too.

[EDIT]

A ha!

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=220349&postcount=7

Ahh, the sign of sclerosis is upon me! Run!!!!!!!

 

[Blazkowicz]

You know you can have ALT+D focus the address field, and almost anything else if you cared to look in the options. You can change shortcuts and make macros for keyboard combination directly in the preferences.

You can also make opera focus next or previous tab if you so please... People just take so much for granted when it comes to features that opera _might_ lack.

yea you're right, then I feel scroll wheel scrolls too much and really didn't know were to fix that, would be again some work I don't want to do, and I already decided I didn't like the interface afterall
But nothing really wrong about Opera, at this point it's nothing but a matter of personal preference, have been using Firefox since 0.5 so I won't easily use something else instead.

Mozilla vs Opera doesn't interest me anymore, as long as you can convince as most people as you can to stay away from evil big blue E . Now IE 7 may change this last thing but I don't know if I'll ever trust it. IE 5/6 is so terrible that I download Firefox on new installs using ftp.exe, and I convert wallpapers to bmp if I use one, to avoid any Active Desktop stuff

 

[Snyder]

You can also make opera focus next or previous tab if you so please... People just take so much for granted when it comes to features that opera _might_ lack.

For Gods sake, please tell me where! Maybe I'm just dumb, but I looked and looked and couldn't find it anywhere.
I really like Opera as a whole, but this single option kept me from using it further.

 

[_xxx_]

For Gods sake, please tell me where! Maybe I'm just dumb, but I looked and looked and couldn't find it anywhere.
I really like Opera as a whole, but this single option kept me from using it further.

That annoys me too, I'd also like to know how.

 

[carpediem]

Preferences -> Advanced -> Shortcuts -> Keyboard setup.

Duplicate the standard setup. Edit it and go to the section "Browser window". Change the F8 to "d alt", close it with "OK", then highlight the "copy of opera standard" keyboard config and you're all set.

 

[Snyder]

Preferences -> Advanced -> Shortcuts -> Keyboard setup.

Duplicate the standard setup. Edit it and go to the section "Browser window". Change the F8 to "d alt", close it with "OK", then highlight the "copy of opera standard" keyboard config and you're all set.

Ah, seems to be a misunderstanding here.
I was looking for a way to change default focus behaviour when closing a tab, i.e. which tab is to be displayed when the active tab is closed.