MS not to reach 3 million in 90 days Target

[scooby_dooby]

It was important enough that MS decided to place major resources into launching there. That alone tells us just how important MS thinks it is.

Again, it important in so far as securing developer support.

It's not important in their plans to get a large headstart on PS3. They could only expect to sell a small fraction of their consoles in japan, what really matters in terms of building their installed base are the European and North American sales figures.

If you want to make the case the japanese market is important to gaining a better diversity of games, I would agree 100%. However, that's not the issue at hand.

 

[ImaginaryIndustryInsider]

Japan is now a small market???

If you don't win in Japan, just dismiss it's market as small.

I love how things get spinned around here.

No, but in the context of the previous "360's being sold out" comment (i.e. sold out in NA, a most likely Europe) it is smaller factor.

If we were talking about long-term/being number #1, than you would be right.

MS doesn't stand a chance of beating Sony overall, unless they manage to establish a decent sized userbase in Japan.

 

[scooby_dooby]

This Story is False

So apparently what happened was, because MS didn't 'reiterate' their 90 day goal at CES, some journalists made a jump in logic, and assumed they were no longer using that metric. Which is false.

The story, "Microsoft to miss Xbox target," points out that that Microsoft didn't reiterate the 90-day target at the Consumer Electronics Show, choosing instead to tout a goal of 4.5 million to 5.5 million units by the end of its fiscal year in June. It was reported by a number of sites as an admission from Microsoft that it would not reach its previous milestone.

The only problem is, that's not what the Financial Times reported. In the article, penned by Chris Nuttall, it merely says that the company "is now expected to miss its target." Nuttall told GameSpot he received no such admission that Microsoft had admitted defeat on the 90-day target from Moore.

Nuttall said he asked Moore if the switch in focus to the end-of-fiscal-year projection meant the company had given up on the 90-day goal, and that the Xbox honcho dodged the question without actually denying it.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6142087.html

However it does seem Moore dodged the question, which kinda speaks for itself...

 

[Shifty Geezer]

This Story is False

So apparently what happened was, because MS didn't 'reiterate' their 90 day goal at CES, some journalists made a jump in logic, and assumed they were no longer using that metric. Which is false.


http://www.gamespot.com/news/6142087.html

However it does seem Moore dodged the question, which kinda speaks for itself...

A damning indictment of the 'professional' press though

BTW Has anyone a link to MS's original hardware targets for June?

 

[Nicked]

I fucking hate journalists who steal news from another site and add their own sensationalism to the article.

 

[scooby_dooby]

There's this from Nov 10th:
http://cestockblog.com/article/4156

Stating 2.75-3 million sold in 90 days, 4.5 - 5.5 by june.

Also this from Oct 27, 4.5 - 5.5 by june (i think this is the original forecast)
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2005/10/microsoft_makes.html

So they actually haven't changed their goals once, since stating them back in October.

And if you go way back to June, the forecast is 10million sold in the first 12-18months. Quite conservative.

Ya these journalists suck. It really makes you wonder how much 'real' news is getting mis-represented like this. You'd think if a journalist could do ONE THING right, it would be accurately paraphrase someone. Don't these guys go to school for this shit or something? Brutal...

 

[gordon]

I just wish they would make it easily available. Sad that I had to ask a relative visiting another state to get one for me . I could have gotten one here, but I have no intention of staking out Best Buy and other stores each day to see if they got a shipment in.

 

[dubyateeeff]

I wonder what the issue is, lack of a compontent being produced in a timely fashion or just that they can't put them together fast enough.

Low yields? That would be the worst thing economically. Xenos and Xenon arent exactly cheap on transistors so that is most likely, yes?

 

[fulcizombie]

Yeah how many Euro developers did MS seed compared to those in Japan?

Or how many Europe-specific releases are they working on compared to Japan-specific releases?

Historically, I heard Japan had higher software attach rates. They bought more games per console than other continents.

Wow,just wow.

The biggest investment MS has made in the console buisness is the buy-out of a European videogames' company (Rare).That investment alone is much bigger than anything MS has invested in Japanese developers.

The 1st party line up of the xbox360 launch was "all European" with Kameo/PDZ/PGR3 developed by European developers.

There are no "Europe-specific" releases cause the European market is pretty much the same with the U.S one with the exception of a few sports games.And if we want to be accurate the only Japanese-specific game that i see MS publishing is "Blue Dragon".Every other MS-published japanese game seems to have a more international flair(games like 99 nights and lost odessey)


"Historically" doesn't matter anymore,what matters is what is hepenning now and right now Europe is the undisputed n.2 market and some would say rivals the U.S market when it comes to number of consoles sold.

 

[wco81]

Did they acquire Rare just for the X360 or specifically for the Euro market?

Why did they bother cutting those deals for those Japanese games if Japan is just number 3?

Because maybe, there is still the potential for 8-figure unit sales of hardware and many times more for software?

Hey China and India dwarfs Europe, Japan and US in population size but they're not such great markets.

OK history doesn't matter. Why didn't MS start with new markets and forget history? There are more people in Asia than in that little island.

 

[Nicked]

Wow,just wow.

The biggest investment MS has made in the console buisness is the buy-out of a European videogames' company (Rare).That investment alone is much bigger than anything MS has invested in Japanese developers.

MS has made deals with many Japanese developers (and western, of course), and whilst the cumulative investment may not have been more than $300M, with the upcoming generation that will change (with BD/LO/NNN).

And really, more so than a development team, MS got a userbase with the Rare acquisition. A worldwide userbase.

.And if we want to be accurate the only Japanese-specific game that i see MS publishing is "Blue Dragon".Every other MS-published japanese game seems to have a more international flair(games like 99 nights and lost odessey)

Huh? LO is "more Japanese" than BD is. One could argue with NNN that since its war = western but really, the sales potential of that, like DW, is all Japanese.

"Historically" doesn't matter anymore,what matters is what is hepenning now and right now Europe is the undisputed n.2 market and some would say rivals the U.S market when it comes to number of consoles sold.

He said software. And anyway, what line of thinking leads to the conclusion that the #3 market is unimportant? Really, #2 since for EU you have to translate games to different regions.

I don't get this line of thinking, debating its importance. Microsoft has point-blank said its very important to them.
Facts about the Xbox360 in Japan:

*Expensive and elaborate advertising campaign
*Designed the console with Japanese tastes in mind
*Pricey Xbox360 venue created
*Cheap hardware bundle for launch
*MS secured Final Fantasy 11 to encourage early adopters
*Advertising on Blue Dragon has begun 6+ months before its release
*MS have paid for the development of 3 high-quality and publicised Japanese developed games

I'm really glad MS is making changes and taking notes, if they had the short-sightedness of some of their defenders we wouldn't be getting games like BD/LO/NNN.

 

[scooby_dooby]

OK history doesn't matter. Why didn't MS start with new markets and forget history? There are more people in Asia than in that little island.

Cause Asia doesn't have as many high-profile developers.

btw, 360 will launch in China, Taiwan and other asian countries in Feb.

 

[Nicked]

btw, 360 will launch in China, Taiwan and other asian countries in Feb.

Actually, Korea on Feb. 24.
Honk Kong, Taiwan, Singapore, Australia + NZ on March 2.

China "targetted" for sometime 2006.

 

[fulcizombie]

MS has made deals with many Japanese developers (and western, of course), and whilst the cumulative investment may not have been more than $300M, with the upcoming generation that will change (with BD/LO/NNN).

And really, more so than a development team, MS got a userbase with the Rare acquisition. A worldwide userbase.


Huh? LO is "more Japanese" than BD is. One could argue with NNN that since its war = western but really, the sales potential of that, like DW, is all Japanese.


He said software. And anyway, what line of thinking leads to the conclusion that the #3 market is unimportant? Really, #2 since for EU you have to translate games to different regions.

I don't get this line of thinking, debating its importance. Microsoft has point-blank said its very important to them.
Facts about the Xbox360 in Japan:

*Expensive and elaborate advertising campaign
*Designed the console with Japanese tastes in mind
*Pricey Xbox360 venue created
*Cheap hardware bundle for launch
*MS secured Final Fantasy 11 to encourage early adopters
*Advertising on Blue Dragon has begun 6+ months before its release
*MS have paid for the development of 3 high-quality and publicised Japanese developed games

I'm really glad MS is making changes and taking notes, if they had the short-sightedness of some of their defenders we wouldn't be getting games like BD/LO/NNN.

Lo is definately not "more Japanese" than blue dragon.LO seems similar to final fantasy=a popular series in the west.BD reminds of Dragon quest= a bomb in the west.

99 nights is a phantagram game at heart and the previous phantagram games created a nice niche on the original xbox so it is as much for the Japanese market as it is for the western ones.
Oh and Europe is bigger both in hardware and software than Japan,is this even a debate here???Who cares if you have to translate games???And if you could actually read my initial post in this thread you would see that i didn't call the Japanese market unimportant,i called it the 3rd biggest in the world ,which it is unlike what some people are trying to convince us.

As for MS,sure they are giving some funds for Japanese development but it's not like they are pulling out all the stops for japan.If they did they could have easily bought some big companies from there(like capcom that has a lot of financial problems the last few years and isn't exactly that expensive) but they feel that it isn't worth it and with the way 99% of Japanese games are selling in the west nowadays,i'd say they are right.

 

[Sis]

MS has made deals with many Japanese developers (and western, of course), and whilst the cumulative investment may not have been more than $300M, with the upcoming generation that will change (with BD/LO/NNN).

1) What is the significance of the $300M number?
2) How do you know how much MS has spent on Japanese developers, individually and cumulatively?

.Sis

 

[ninzel]

The problem with the 360 is that it's not focused. It has no balls. It's trying to sit in the middle and playing it safe, and it lacks passion and excitement becasue of it.
It's neither high end enough, or low end enough.
On one hand it charges a very Premium price, yet has no next gen HD drive, or no full media capabilities. The PS3 will have it beat on the high end by the mere fact that it will have an HD drive, and likely full media capabilities. If I'm looking for a full features high end machine, I'll look to to the PS3 which will likely do high end much better.
On the low end, it will likely be much more expensive than the the REV. If you are looking a simple pure and affordable game system the REV has it beat. The REV will have a free online service which will likely be simple but have enough features to satisfy most except for the most hardcore jaded gamer. The REV will cheap games for download as well great for the less afluent family. On the low end the REV it beat.
So it sits there in the middle doing nothing extremely well, and it's one magor selling point(Live) was special because it was the only option for consoles,it had no competition. Once the other two release there versions, Live won't seem nearly as special as it once did.

 

[Thegameman]

Compared to all of Europe and North America it is small, especially when you consider interest for 360 is very low in that region, it's almost irrelevant to any discussion about worldwide sales.

In other words, Japan was never going to have a large impact on the 360's installed base for 2006, so why is it relevant to this discussion if they are not sold out in Japan?

Just cuz MS consoles don't perform well in Japan doesn't mean that Japan is irrelevant, if you go by that say the same about EU cuz the xbox sold like 6 million units there that is not even half of what the xbox sold in US.


Also if by any chance the xbox 360 and PS3 would be tied in both EU and US,Japan would be the tie breaker lets say both are tied at 60 million units 30 in US and 30 in EU for both,if that was the case the PS3 would still win like 75 to 62 million just cuz the xbox doesn't perform well,reason why MS keep trying in Japan and believe me they also know that one.


Also that market you call small and almost irrelevant has a 20+ million PS2 user base,that is what the xbox has world wide.

 

[Nicked]

Lo is definately not "more Japanese" than blue dragon.LO seems similar to final fantasy=a popular series in the west.BD reminds of Dragon quest= a bomb in the west.

Final Fantasy is a Japanese-created franchise, and is definitely "Japanese" in style, so eh :?
Success in the U.S is based purely on the name.
BD reminds me more of Kingdom Hearts, a Japanese-developed fuse of eastern and western (FF meets Disney). Not saying it will be childish or what have you, just that its suited for both markets.

99 nights is a phantagram game at heart and the previous phantagram games created a nice niche on the original xbox so it is as much for the Japanese market as it is for the western ones.

Here are your choices, pick one:
1) NNN is a game developed by Phantagram, with Phantagram production values, gameplay mechanics and concepts (the above).
2) NNN is a game developed by Phantagram, with Mistwalker production values, gameplay mechanics and concepts (the common opinion).

As for MS,sure they are giving some funds for Japanese development but it's not like they are pulling out all the stops for japan.If they did they could have easily bought some big companies from there(like capcom that has a lot of financial problems the last few years and isn't exactly that expensive) but they feel that it isn't worth it and with the way 99% of Japanese games are selling in the west nowadays,i'd say they are right.

God, Microsoft has said Japan are important, Microsoft has shown they want the market, and they've taken steps I outlined. Why are you so defensive? Microsoft is smarter than you. Maybe they didn't buy Capcom because:
a) They thought it was a bad business investment.
b) They've no intention of alienating other third-party publishers. They've learnt lessons since the attempted Nintendo/Square buyouts I would guess.

Once again, I'm siding with Microsoft, yet you insist on arguing, and are doing a piss-poor job of "defending" them against fictionary slurs.

Oh and Europe is bigger both in hardware and software than Japan,is this even a debate here??

Who said it wasn't?
Europe is a continent and has games released in different regions under different titles at different times and in different languages.
Japan is a single region.
Besides, really anyway, your agument that MS isn't concentrating on the region is laughable in the face of all the evidence to the contrary.
Again, I'm glad MS has more vision.

1) What is the significance of the $300M number?
2) How do you know how much MS has spent on Japanese developers, individually and cumulatively?

1) MS bought Rare for $377M USD, roughly ~300M euros at the time.
2) I don't. Hence "may". But I did say it "will" pass that figure this gen, because frankly I can see them sinking 100M on just those 3 games. If they're giving the same type of development budget as Sony is purportedly giving their studios, anyway, combined with the enormous marketing push.
And I assume those won't be the only games they release, and I expect "incentives" to other publishers to release games on the system won't be uncommon. Wonder what FFXI cost them?
And thats not including Xbox stuff, like the cancelled TFLO and deals etc. whatever that may () have been made.

PS: Why sign your posts with your handle?

 

[<nu>faust]

jsut as a note : according to rumours; ms agreed to pay 2.99 bil yen per game to mistwalker(around 26 million usd) Since there are only 3 xbox 360 mistwalker exclusives (blue dragon.lost odessey,cry-on) announced, the total amount of money actually paid to mistwalker is around 80 million.

 

[Ty]

Again, it important in so far as securing developer support.

It's not important in their plans to get a large headstart on PS3. They could only expect to sell a small fraction of their consoles in japan, what really matters in terms of building their installed base are the European and North American sales figures.

If you want to make the case the japanese market is important to gaining a better diversity of games, I would agree 100%. However, that's not the issue at hand.

So why did MS bother with the whole launch festivities and pre-launch PR, etc?