MS is #2 in Europe, contrary to Nintendo's press release

[Glonk]

Nintendo used a market analyst to predict Xbox sales in Europe at 1.4M in 2002, compared to their figures of 1.5M.

But the truth is, MS sold 1.8M consoles in Europe in 2002, not 1.4M.

That gives MS a 300,000 console lead in Europe.
Last time I checked they had a 600,000+ lead in North America also.

Is Japan now the only region where Nintendo outsells MS?

Source: http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/030116/tech_microsoft_xbox_1.html

As a side note, the Xbox was classified as a "surprise performer" in 2002 as MS posted record revenues and posted a quarterly profit of $2.55B in Q4 2002 on revenues of $8.54 billion

 

[clem64]

Maybe more market research will show that Ninty sold 1.9

 

[Magnum PI]

Nintendo used a market analyst to predict Xbox sales in Europe at 1.4M in 2002, compared to their figures of 1.5M.

But the truth is, MS sold 1.8M consoles in Europe in 2002, not 1.4M.

That gives MS a 300,000 console lead in Europe.
Last time I checked they had a 600,000+ lead in North America also.

Is Japan now the only region where Nintendo outsells MS?

Source: http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/030116/tech_microsoft_xbox_1.html

MS already lied about european sales using "shipped to" figures instead of "sold to the consumers" figures..

according the the articles microsoft whould have sold 425,000 units in japan, and the figures i found are more like 312,000...

my guess is they are (unsurprisingly) lying again.

As a side note, the Xbox was classified as a "surprise performer" in 2002 as MS posted record revenues and posted a quarterly profit of $2.55B in Q4 2002 on revenues of $8.54 billion

you give the grand total but it would be more interesting you gave the figures concerning the xbox (losses).

are MS still using cookie jar practices ? i wouldn't be surprised.

 

[Glonk]

my guess is they are (unsurprisingly) lying again.

I would disagree.

These numbers jive far more with the anecdotal evidence I've heard from people in both Germany and the UK, plus the sales charts in the UK that we already know.

according the the articles microsoft whould have sold 425,000 units in japan, and the figures i found are more like 312,000...

You do know that the figures that show 312,000 are like NDP in that they don't cover the whole of the market, right?

you give the grand total but it would be more interesting you gave the figures concerning the xbox (losses).

Once someone finds them I'd like to hear them too. The closest thing I've found is revenues for the Home Entertainment group the Xbox is in, and they're up to over $1B now...

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Xbox short term losses are irrelevant. The attach rate is so good that MS has nothing to worry about long-term. They'll at least break even on Xbox, setting them up to make a killing on Live and Xbox Next.

 

[Teasy]

MS have no credibility at all for sales numbers, especially European ones. The credibility of any companies numbers (MS,Nintendo, Sony) are quite questionable anyway. These numbers, once again, are likely sold to store numbers not sold to consumer numbers.

As someone said MS seem to have done the same for Japan. Not all sales tracking services over there are like NPD (lower then real sales), and none of them have XBox anywhere near what MS claim AFAICS. Again sold to retailer numbers would be my guess.

Last time we heard European sales from an independent source GC was still well ahead (this wasn't that long ago). This gap may well have gone by now considering XBox selling so well in the U.K assuming its also selling well in the rest of Europe (or be in XBox's favour if its selling really well in the rest of Europe). However we still don't see sales from the rest of Europe from any independent source so I wouldn't be totally sure of that. The gap certainly would have been narrowed, simply due to big U.K numbers, but that's all we can be sure of.

I'd seriously suggest that you wait until we see some sort of decent independent numbers before posting a thread like this. I wouldn't even bother to post a thread like this based on Nintendo's own numbers. It just looks silly to post a thread like this based on MS PR, especially when you say stuff like "The truth is" and then quote MS's numbers

 

[Glonk]

MS have no credibility at all for sales numbers, especially European ones. The credibility of any companies numbers (MS,Nintendo, Sony) are quite questionable anyway. These numbers, once again, are likely sold to store numbers not sold to consumer numbers.

I don't know how you think these businesses work.

Every single console manufacturer can either state "sold" numbers or "shipped" numbers. Their "shipped" numbers mean they've been produced and left the factory, sold means sold to retailers.

There's no way for MS, Sony, or Nintendo to accurately determine how many customers bought consoles. They really don't care. MS has now SOLD over 8M consoles worldwide, which means retailers BOUGHT these from MS and are now part of the marketplace. They WILL be sold, and retailers buy them based upon the demand they receive.

MS sold to retailers 1.8M in Europe, Nintendo sold to retailers 1.5M in Europe. The chances are extremely high that MS sold more to consumers as well.

As someone said MS seem to have done the same for Japan. Not all sales tracking services over there are like NPD (lower then real sales), and none of them have XBox anywhere near what MS claim AFAICS. Again sold to retailer numbers would be my guess.

Sold to retailers is how it is for all the companies when they report their numbers.

NPD and Famitsu and MediaCreate all do not cover the entire market. I have no idea why you think those Japanese publications all cover the market in Japan, IIRC the largest Japanese gaming store doesn't release sales statistics...

Last time we heard European sales from an independent source GC was still well ahead (this wasn't that long ago).

Which source? What date?

Everyone I've talked to in Europe acknowledged that the Xbox is outselling the Gamecube in the UK and Germany at the very least, and the UK alone is the largest game market in Europe.

I'd seriously suggest that you wait until we see some sort of decent independent numbers before posting a thread like this.

Independent numbers = estimates.
Estimates all vary.

The only true, factual indictator for console sales we have comes from the official 'sold to retailers' numbers that Sony, MS, and Nintendo have all released in Europe. Retailers buy consoles to meet demand, so they've been buying more MS consoles than Nintendo's. Even if they suddenly stopped producing the consoles, all of the 8M MS reported sold would make it out into the market eventually.

I just don't understand why you believe estimates over factual data... Is it because the latest "estimates" have hisotrically been favorable to Nintendo, by any chance?

I wouldn't even bother to post a thread like this based on Nintendo's own numbers. It just looks silly to post a thread like this based on MS PR, especially when you say stuff like "The truth is" and then quote MS's numbers

If MS fabricated those numbers they'd get in shit from the SEC for misleading investors.

The FACT is, Nintendo sold 1.5M to retailers, MS sold 1.8M to retailers in Europe.

Only someone without a tiny bit of logic skills wouldn't believe that this means MS simply is selling more consoles in Europe...

 

[oli2]

OK OK ...

Would you open your eyes, please ?

Since the release of Xbox and NGC, there has been a "communication war" between the 3 console makers. IMO, Xbox has broken more records than all previous consoles together if you believe all the news you repeated here along the monthes....

Don't you think it's strange that 2 weeks after Nintendo's annoncement of 1.5M GCN sold in Europe, Microsoft come and say :"I've sold 1 500 001 consoles in Europe".

If really Microsoft had sold more console than Nintendo, they would have been more than happy to say that long ago, don't you think ?

Cheers.

 

[Glonk]

Don't you think it's strange that 2 weeks after Nintendo's annoncement of 1.5M GCN sold in Europe, Microsoft come and say :"I've sold 1 500 001 consoles in Europe".

If really Microsoft had sold more console than Nintendo, they would have been more than happy to say that long ago, don't you think ?
This was addressed in the conference call that's available on Microsoft's website.

They were not allowed to release the sales figures until the earning report which was done yesterday. Corporate policy.

I'm pretty sure Nintendo knew that, which is why they released the bogus 1.4M Xbox figure by "Screen Digest"'s estimate. Reuters even ran a news story about it, and it made it into my local paper here in Canada, about how Nintendo is outselling the Xbox in Europe by 100,000 units.

Even though they were comparing Nintendo's sold-to-retailers number and an estimate of MS's userbase.

 

[oli2]

[This was addressed in the conference call that's available on Microsoft's website.

They were not allowed to release the sales figures until the earning report which was done yesterday. Corporate policy.

Great explanation !
Poor little Microsoft : they were simply not allowed to say the world how they are thousands times stronger than others !

Stop !!!
Here in Europe, at Xbox and GCN launch, we had every day news from Microsoft's site explaining that Xbox was outselling GCN in Europe. As a result, 2 monthes later, Xbox 's price dropped around 200$ !

So, you see, news from M$ ... (((((

 

[Glonk]

The last official numbers from MS came back in July, again at an earnings conference...

I have no idea what you're trying to prove but it's not working at all...

 

[wazoo]

Xbox has sold very well over Christmas in France, especially in stores accepting to mod your console.

I've no problem to accept the idea that the xbox sold more than the GC

- HEAVY advertising and almost zero from Nintendo
- Bundles Bundles Bundles
- Heavy sales of the GBA

Did I talk about the advertising ??

 

[Blade]

I'm not educated on the European market and numbers.. but I'd have to say that Xbox probably has a lead by now.

GCN got a 300K lead, then people started giving away anywhere from 2-4 free AAA Xbox titles with every system.. while the GCN was cheaper alone.. but you had to buy each and every game that you wanted to play. Microsoft = smart.

'Course, they're probably losing piles of money.. but they're gaining market share.

 

[Glonk]

According to Matt at IGN, the Xbox outsold the Gamecube by 400,000 hardware units this "holiday season" (he also implied these are US numbers only!)

It was also reported that Splinter Cell outsold Metroid Prime:
MP: 725,000 (year end 2002)
SC: 855,000 (year end 2002)

These are also US sales only, and don't include US/Canada. Ubi Soft said in North America sales have exceeded 1M for SC.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

According to Matt at Cube.IGN the Xbox outsold the Gamecube by 400k units over the holidays in the US. That means that:

Xbox in US - 5.4 million
Cube in US - 4 million

Xbox in EU - 1.8 million
Cube in EU - 1.5 million

Xbox in West - 7.2 million
Cube in West - 5.5 million

Xbox in Asia - 850k
Cube in Asion - 2.5 million

Xbox world-wide - 8.05 million
Cube world-wide - 8 million

Xbox #2 overall.

 

[zurich]

According to Matt at Cube.IGN the Xbox outsold the Gamecube by 400k units over the holidays in the US. That means that:

Xbox in US - 5.4 million
Cube in US - 4 million

Xbox in EU - 1.8 million
Cube in EU - 1.5 million

Xbox in West - 7.2 million
Cube in West - 5.5 million

Xbox in Asia - 850k
Cube in Asion - 2.5 million

Xbox world-wide - 8.05 million
Cube world-wide - 8 million

Xbox #2 overall.

You're forgetting Aus and Canadian numbers for "the west" !

Where'd you get that Xbox asia number?? Last I saw, it was hovering around 300k in Japan... are you including the 'shipped' figures for Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, etc?

Also, where'd that 1m SC number come from? Last I saw it was around 250k for NPD...

 

[Glonk]

The Asia numbers comes from MS themselves as official numbers in their quarterly earnings report, dated yesterday.

It's Asia-Pacfic, including South Korea, Australia, New Zealand, Japan, etc.

The 1M number for Splinter Cell in North America comes from an Ubi Soft press release (the one where they announced it's coming to Gamecube) dated last week.

The numbers Matt of IGN Cube provided show ~865K in the US alone.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Xbox world-wide - 8.05 million
Cube world-wide - 8 million

Nintendo shipped 10Million consoles in '02 alone. Figure in between 2Million-3Million they shipped in '01 and they are almost certainly over 10Million units sold as of now(3Million Cubes in the pipe sound very unrealistic, let alone 5Million). I'm actually quite surprised that the XBox isn't quite a bit higher then 8Million, does anyone have the link to the official MS statement on the global numbers?

 

[Glonk]

Here's the closest I found: http://www.microsoft.com/msft/earnings/FY03/Q03_2.htm

 

[Magnum PI]

The FACT is, Nintendo sold 1.5M to retailers, MS sold 1.8M to retailers in Europe.

the FACT is that MS sold 1.4 millions to end users, nintendo sold 1.5 millions to end users. (what we know from nintendo announcement..).
and that MS sold 1.8 millions to retailers, and we don't how how much nintendo sold to retailers.
(what we know from MS announcement).

about the european sales, nintendo used to give "sold to consumers" figures, while microsoft used to give "sold to retailers figures".. unless proven otherwise, we have every reason to believe they continued to give the same kind of figures.

you can't just compare figures from the two announcements.
unfortunately microsoft didn't gave their version of nintendo sales... guess why ?

and in the article you state, nowhere their is said that in europe more there were more xbox sold than GC.. it is only you who stated that using flawed reasonning ie: comparing "sold to retailers" figures and "sold to end users" figures..

when we have two contracting statemenst. one from a well-known liar, one from somebody who usually to tell truth.. it's very hard to choose who you want to believe..

and i have some fact to backup the claim that figures given are sales to retailers.

despite the claim in your article, microsoft didn't sell about 425000 xbox to consumers in japan.
http://news.com.com/2100-1040-981178.html

The Xbox has been nearly invisible in Japan, selling slightly more than 300,000 units since its debut there last March.

http://mb.vgdirectory.com/topten.htm
Xbox 312,400

do you have some URL that gives a 425,000 figure for japanese xbox sales ? of course not..