Mixed Information on Consoles or How I learned to loathe PR *spin off*

[Scott_Arm]

So you've made this a binary choice:

0: X1 1080p, Scorpio 1080p
1: X1 1080p, Scorpio 4k

What about X1 1080p, Scorpio @ whatever the devs want? There's a near unlimited number of possibilities. Maybe one dev will say, sure 1080p on xbox 1 and then we'll just go for 4k on Scorpio but they'll look largely the same. Another might say, 720p on X1 and 1080p on Scorpio. Another might say, 900p on X1 and something a little higher than 1080p on Scorpio and with a whole bunch of other improvements.

How do you expect Microsoft, or Sony for that matter, to ever be able to definitively answer that question for their upcoming systems? Seriously, you want an answer to a question that cannot be answered in one way for all games. It's going to be game by game. You know that, I know that. There's nothing confusing other than you want an impossible question answered.

 

[Scott_Arm]

I agree vis-a-vis salesmen but Phil Spencer is not selling Xbox Scorpio. ...

Lol

 

[Dave Baumann]

And lets be clear - we are talking about statements from a bunch of very hasty and lengthy interviews, at a very busy location, with a whole lot of people that are interested.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Lol

He's selling Xbox One S. You will be able to buy that soon.

 

[mrcorbo]

Seems pretty clear to me, TBH.

MS are going to *market* Scorpio as a 4K box. XBOne S will be *marketed* as the 1080p box. 1st and 2nd party games will be developed with this in mind. 3rd parties will probably follow suit since it doesn't really make sense for them to go against this perception that MS intend to specifically create. There won't be any technical requirement for 3rd parties to render at >1080p for Scorpio, but the expectation consumers should have is that the main difference between the XBOne version of a game and the Scorpio version will be rendering resolution.

 

[Sigfried1977]

The PR nightmare is totally imagined outside forums like this. I haven't read any press stories complaining about it being confusing. When Xbox One launched, you could find stories everywhere, with people complaining about policies and wondering how everything was going to work. I'm not seeing that for Scorpio.

I guess you must have found that one website that isn't bitching about it, then. People are already sceptical about these unexpected mid-gen refreshes (a couple hundred pixel counters who scream revolution whenever a new graphics card gets released that's 20% quicker than the last one isn't exactly indicative of market trends), and deliberately confusing pr blabber isn't really helping.

 

[BRiT]

No, I do not subscribe to your conspiracy theory. What the hell is in this for Sony? No company wants to be forced to talk about a product that aren't ready to talk about, particularly as it creates uncertainly for people thinking about to buy the current version of your product?

Thats where I disagree with you. The specs and TRCs are out there for Sony MidGen Upgrade so they are part of the message that exists to consumers. Just because Sony refuses to clarify doesnt mean people shouldn't consider it to be part of their message.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Seems pretty clear to me, TBH. MS are going to *market* Scorpio as a 4K box. XBOne S will be *marketed* as the 1080p box. 1st and 2nd party games will be developed with this in mind.

And if Microsoft stick to what Phil Spencer said to Eurogamer, this will be fine.

So if in November this year you're deciding whether to buy a Xbox One S straight away or get Scorpio next year, but you have a 1080p TV set and no immediate plans to upgrade, you obvious buy an Xbox One S because Phil Spence said the Scorpio will not benefit you.

Then Microsoft release Scorpio a year later and even without a 4K set the games run waaaay better than your Xbox One S.

Are you pissed about this?

Thats where I disagree with you. The specs and TRCs are out there for Sony MidGen Upgrade so they are part of the message that exists to consumers. Just because Sony refuses to clarify doesnt mean people shouldn't consider it to be part of their message.

I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Are you suggesting Sony let these leak to generate some buzz? Or that because there was a leak that Sony are obliged to fess up everything to the public? Or something else?

But a leak is not messaging. It's a leak. What Sony have said publicly is messaging. Maybe you also consider what Edward Snowden revealed some über transparent NSA messaging?

 

[BRiT]

And if Microsoft stick to what Phil Spencer said to Eurogamer, this will be fine.

So if in November this year you're deciding whether to buy a Xbox One S straight away or get Scorpio next year, but you have a 1080p TV set and no immediate plans to upgrade, you obvious buy an Xbox One S because Phil Spence said the Scorpio will not benefit you.

Then Microsoft release Scorpio a year later and even without a 4K set the games run waaaay better than your Xbox One S.

Are you pissed about this?



I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Are you suggesting Sony let these leak to generate some buzz? Or that because there was a leak that Sony are obliged to fess up everything to the public? Or something else?

But a leak is not messaging. It's a leak. What Sony have said publicly is messaging. Maybe you also consider what Edward Snowden revealed some über transparent NSA messaging?

I am saying the information is out there for people to read about and thus must be considered as part of the confusing message about the Sony midgen update. Shouldn't all information that exists about a product be considered?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

So you've made this a binary choice:

0: X1 1080p, Scorpio 1080p
1: X1 1080p, Scorpio 4k
...
How do you expect Microsoft, or Sony for that matter, to ever be able to definitively answer that question for their upcoming systems?

By saying, "its for the devs to use the power however they want." Optionally, "we'll be mandating a 4K mode for all games as well, but improved experiences at 1080p will be there for devs who want to go that route."

What's wrong with that answer? Why isn't that even the most obvious, transparent answer?

Also, I'm thinking of option 2: X1 1080p, Scorpio 1080p mode and 4K mode for games. I never made it a binary choice. No-one made it that until Spencer bascially described the console like that (repeatedly).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I am saying the information is out there for people to read about and thus must be considered as part of the confusing message about the Sony midgen update. Shouldn't all information that exists about a product be considered?

That's not messaging because it's not intended to be heard. "Messaging" is communicating to your audience what you want to say to them. You can have a different message for engineers, business people (Financial Times etc.), and general consumers.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

And lets be clear - we are talking about statements from a bunch of very hasty and lengthy interviews, at a very busy location, with a whole lot of people that are interested.

That is the most significant and relevant point for the miscommunication, but it's still poor form for a big business going into a public show with a new product and not knowing how they're going to answer some pretty obvious questions that'll come up. Before the show, create a FAQ website, even if private, and make sure all the execs know the story. Produce fliers.

It's really not hard to communciate a clear message, especially when you have money to pay people for that.

 

[BRiT]

That's not messaging because it's not intended to be heard. "Messaging" is communicating to your audience what you want to say to them. You can have a different message for engineers, business people (Financial Times etc.), and general consumers.

Alright, fine lets be pedantic, so lets call it Mixed Information now. Better?

 

[Nesh]

6 Teraflops is a lot of extra power.I dont its going to be used just for resolution and framerate. Also I think MS did say that its up to the developer how the extra power will be exploited.
To me there lies a problem.

In the past we knew that the developers would squeeze the most they could out of the hardware through great art, optimization and in house developed techniques to by pass limitations.

But if the developer will use the extra performance to get some extra visual candy and simply downscale the graphics on the XBox One then we start having the same problem we have with PC GPU's never being exploited to their full potential.

To me, despite what MS says, I get the impression that MS is slowly phasing out XBOne since it is pretty obvious that MS is disappointed with the future prospects and its sales performance

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I am saying the information is out there for people to read about and thus must be considered as part of the confusing message about the Sony midgen update. Shouldn't all information that exists about a product be considered?

I consider all information but I give more weight to information from verifiable and reliable sources than others. It is certainly Sony's problem to manage but if Sony aren't ready to disclose it, perhaps because some things aren't yet final, they really shouldn't be saying anything definitive.

Assuming the leaked information is correct and final, I can't see what Sony would have to lose by simply confirming it so I my guess is that the information isn't final. It's really the only explanation that makes sense. This is why Sony have only really said generic things that aren't going to change: new PS4, 4K, better processor, will co-exist with existing PS4.

 

[Jwm]

This is why playing pedantic with competitors' products in the Twitter age is a bad idea. People will dig this stuff up lol.

The PS4 did not launch over a year later from PS Meeting in 2013. Such a statement was stupid then, and it is revealed how stupid it is now.

Well to be fair to both companies - that is one approach! LOL

 

[London Geezer]

Didn't both companies announce new platforms without actually showing them?

 

[Scott_Arm]

By saying, "its for the devs to use the power however they want." Optionally, "we'll be mandating a 4K mode for all games as well, but improved experiences at 1080p will be there for devs who want to go that route."

What's wrong with that answer? Why isn't that even the most obvious, transparent answer?

Also, I'm thinking of option 2: X1 1080p, Scorpio 1080p mode and 4K mode for games. I never made it a binary choice. No-one made it that until Spencer bascially described the console like that (repeatedly).

There's nothing wrong with the answer, "its for the devs to use the power however they want." That's why Phil Spencer answer that way when he was asked the question by several gaming sites. It's also the answer that everyone knows to be the truth already, because that's the way it's always been. That's why it's not confusing.

They're hammering away at 4k, because it's a marketing point, just like 1080p was with PS3 (movies) and PS4 (gaming).

 

[mrcorbo]

And if Microsoft stick to what Phil Spencer said to Eurogamer, this will be fine.

So if in November this year you're deciding whether to buy a Xbox One S straight away or get Scorpio next year, but you have a 1080p TV set and no immediate plans to upgrade, you obvious buy an Xbox One S because Phil Spence said the Scorpio will not benefit you.

Then Microsoft release Scorpio a year later and even without a 4K set the games run waaaay better than your Xbox One S.

Are you pissed about this?

Yes. And if that happens, I'll be the first to criticize them for lying to their customers. If you're Phil Spencer and you're trying to rehabilitate the XBox brand then you need to be damn sure about this before you say it.

Edit: To be clear, I don't think it's fair to apply a binary standard to this, though. If *one* game opts to use the power to be really pretty at "low" resolution or do 60fps instead of 30, but the vast majority do not, I won't be getting out the pitchfork.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Didn't both companies announce new platforms without actually showing them?

Sony dropped most of the specs and features of PS4 at their February 2013 reveal it was only the case they hadn't shown. They had games being played live on stage, they dropped the 8Gb GDDR5 bombshell, revealed the architecture makeup and showed the dashboard and DualShock 4. Microsoft did show the Xbox One at their May 2013 reveal but obviously there was obviously nothing substantial about Scorpio.

You don't seem to hear much from Larry Hyrb these days. Poor bloke probably can't get a look in with Phil Spencer everywhere!