Do 1080p Monitors only display 1080p content?
Do 1080p TVs only display 1080p content?
Do 4K TVs only display 4K content?
Do 5K Monitors only display 5K content?
Yes, you're being daft.
Mixed Information on Consoles or How I learned to loathe PR *spin off*
- Thread starter rockaman
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Do 1080p Monitors only display 1080p content?
Do 1080p TVs only display 1080p content?
Do 4K TVs only display 4K content?
Do 5K Monitors only display 5K content?
Yes, you're being daft.
What happens when you hook a 720p tv up to your xbox one or ps4? It doesn't start rendering at 720p. I'm assuming it just downscales the 1080p output to 720p. If you hook a 1080p tv up to your Neo or Scorpio, it's still going to render somewhere between 4k and 1080p, depending on what the devs are doing. They very unlikely to target 1080p on those boxes. Unless you're really interested in super-sampling, both consoles will probably waste a lot of their rendering power on resolution that your tv will not be able to display.
I think this thread is silly. They have said they wont limit the developer. Its obvious that the xbox one is their 1080p machine and Scorpio is their 4k machine however you can still make a 1080p or 1440p game and upscale it if you want just like games are 720p/900p/1080p on the xbox one.
If the System offers no framerate improvements and 4K only like Phillip Spencer said how is Toddimus Howardanial of Bethesda Hardworks game director of Fallin&out 4 going to bring VR framerate to Scorpio like he claimed he would?
Why did other developers in that video emphasize "60fps" why did another say "THE BEST framerates"???
Is Fallout 4 VR mode still going to be 30fps on the Scorpio? Did Toddimus lie to the press?
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From my point of view, there would be no reason to buy an Xbox OneS now, knowing Scorpio is coming, irrespective of whether I have a 4k TV or not. I really doubt it will matter much to MS though. The gamers that even know the Scorpio exists and what the difference might even mean likely already have an Xbox One rather than waiting all this time for a shrink.
There are multiple reasons
1) Its $300 bucks which I can assure you the scorpio wont be.
2) Its a $300 4k bluray player and 4k Netflix , amazon prime , hulu and whatever else player. UHD players cost that much or more currently.
3) It can slightly improve your xbox one games. So if you have multiple tvs in the house and multiple players you can upgrade to this.
What the poor consumers who can't read and know the need a memory card, are they going to know which model they need? I'm being a bit obnoxious here but we've heard some here overstate the difficulty with messaging before and now it seems like that is all water under the bridge. IMO the wording could have been better but not enough of a problem to warrant the over reactions we've seen from both sides.
what messaging ? The console is launching over a year from now. Messaging will happen at e3 2017. This is such a dumb thread.
It may be a ways off, but they announced it publicly at a press conference so to suggest we should ignore anything they say about it now is simply absurd. I agree it's a dumb thread, but that's only because MS execs keep saying dumb things.
When Sony announced PSVR you didn't have any issue saying how confusing it would be and how Sony screwed everything up, now you are suggesting calm over MS's messaging... Just be consistent. If consumers are confused by a Move bundle surely some could be confused about which XB1 they need to buy. In both cases the fear IMO is overblown.
Again it's not about what the console will or won't do. It's what MS have said. I believe you. I think you're right and Scorpio will play games enhanced for 1080p with better shaders and stuff. The question is why haven't MS said that?! Because that's a really easy thing to say.
And incidentally, you originally claimed I was taking the qupote out of context. I replied with the entire EG article. Do you agree now I wasn't taking it out of context and yes, the article is all 4k 4k 4k with no mention of 1080p benefits, or is there an excerpt I missed that you can quote to prove me wrong?
Then why say it is?!
This isn't hard
1) was the message ambiguous. No (not in the EG article).
2) did Spencer say 4K only. Yes
Clearly 2) is fact (in and out of context) and 1), though some are managing to see wiggle-room in the choice of language, is pretty solidly on point about Scorpio being a 4K machine. Go through and do some stats on how often it's associated with 4K versus how often it's mentioned devs have freedom to do what they want.
Also there's really no such thing as PR noise. If the PR is noise, it's not PR. PR is about building positive public relations, getting people to trust you and following your vision. Mixed messages and confused consumers is a lack of PR and just random waffling. EG have an article just gone up about how confused they get with MS' contradictory messages. - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...ssages-at-e3-arent-pretty-for-xbox-one-owners.
That's MS's fault here. For years now. Rather than defending them (perhaps they defend themselves in the board room which is why they keep generating all this noise), everyone should wake up and smell the coffee. They failed to communicate Kinect and always-on visions whcih likely damaged the product and appeal and cost them notable business. They failed to communicate RotTR clearly such that people were up in arms for no good reason, making MS the enemy. They've failed to tell us what Scorpio actually is. MS's business operations are messed up and they need to fix them rather than be excused, for Business Reasons. Has nothing to do with fanboys and platform bias, and everything to do with consumers positively relating to the company and vision and MS being able to get people behind their products. That needs clear messaging, we all accept, and clear messaging is something MS are pretty bad at, I think because their console business playbook was lost in the wash and now they're making it up as they go along.
"We're showing Scorpio at E3."
"This early? Okay, how do we manage the message and expectations, generate interest and yet not affect XB1 or Slim sales?"
"I don't know. My dog ate the plans."
"Again?! Damn, I'll have to wing it in the interviews again. Keep me abreast of what our Twitter campaign is doing so I can respond as needed. And keep a record of the interviews I do today because I'll have to read them all tomorrow to find out what I said."
I'm having visions of the British sit-com "Yes, Minister"...
Is this really about 1k/4k and not the interest to see games go beyond the current generation's limits game world wise if there are such limits.
By sending out the message that Scorpio as also PS4e are only meant to push 4k/VR versions of the same content also available for current generation it sets an artificially limit to not hurt current sales but which most people here surely don't agree with.
I'm sure this is no real problem for most games in the next few years anyway *but* while experiencing "The Division" I started to wonder if the staleness of its sandbox was a graphical or an economical compromise.
I wouldn't want such games be gimped for years to come for an unified console marketing reason.
That's why I think MS/Sony's messaging should have been smarter because in the end new consoles always meant to fuel the imagination of their fans.
By sending out the message that Scorpio as also PS4e are only meant to push 4k/VR versions of the same content also available for current generation it sets an artificially limit to not hurt current sales but which most people here surely don't agree with.
I'm sure this is no real problem for most games in the next few years anyway *but* while experiencing "The Division" I started to wonder if the staleness of its sandbox was a graphical or an economical compromise.
I wouldn't want such games be gimped for years to come for an unified console marketing reason.
That's why I think MS/Sony's messaging should have been smarter because in the end new consoles always meant to fuel the imagination of their fans.
Rurouni
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I think initially Scorpio will be a 4K only system and it will be sold like that with the associated 4K premium (it will be expensive). All the games for Scorpio probably will be mandated to be in 4K res so X1 isn't going to be immediately obsolete. Those that use 4K in 1080p will have pristine AA, but not much else (probably slightly better everything, but not like turning the setting from medium to extreme, more like medium to medium high, also better/more stable frame rate).
I don't think they will allow, at least initially, for a dev to target 1080p on Scorpio. They probably don't want Scorpio to compete directly with X1 for sales, but as a complement, a higher end product to the Xbox family.
Of course the problem here, once you set it up like that (X1 for HD/Full HD, Scorpio 4K) then I don't think devs will lower their resolution to Full HD on Scorpio even if they are allowed to in the future because that might piss off the Scorpio buyers that expects 4K resolution from their console. Imagine that initially when you buy Scorpio, the games look sharp on your 4K TV, then suddenly a dev make a 1080p game, it is like going from Full HD to SD res (1080p to 540p, assuming that you can differentiate between 4K and 1080p from your viewing distance).
Hey, the bright side is that since I game on PC and planning to buy a 480, I know that the card won't be obsolete when 6TF Scorpio arrive because I just need to render at 1080p, so plenty of headroom. I might even just buy 470 depending on the price difference between those 2.
I don't think they will allow, at least initially, for a dev to target 1080p on Scorpio. They probably don't want Scorpio to compete directly with X1 for sales, but as a complement, a higher end product to the Xbox family.
Of course the problem here, once you set it up like that (X1 for HD/Full HD, Scorpio 4K) then I don't think devs will lower their resolution to Full HD on Scorpio even if they are allowed to in the future because that might piss off the Scorpio buyers that expects 4K resolution from their console. Imagine that initially when you buy Scorpio, the games look sharp on your 4K TV, then suddenly a dev make a 1080p game, it is like going from Full HD to SD res (1080p to 540p, assuming that you can differentiate between 4K and 1080p from your viewing distance).
Hey, the bright side is that since I game on PC and planning to buy a 480, I know that the card won't be obsolete when 6TF Scorpio arrive because I just need to render at 1080p, so plenty of headroom. I might even just buy 470 depending on the price difference between those 2.
Then why say it is?!
Because they want people to want XBONES in the here and now. And most people own 1080p sets. So they were making noises to suggest that yes, Scorpio is super powerful, but you should still want XBONES in the here and now because [reason].
[reason] will disappear by Christmas 2017.
Phil is already starting to walk it back:
http://www.videogamer.com/news/deve...teraflops_however_they_wish_says_spencer.html
I think you're too locked in on something PhilS said, probably while slightly mangling a marketing angle, while trying to make a space for their new XBONES (I'm going to keep using it till it sticks) in the mind of consumers who are already looking at Scropio (because MS said "hey, l@@k at Scropio!!").
PR is as much noise to block the truth as it is elucidatory, IMO.
Agree that MS's messaging is shit though, completely. But they're in a tough spot at the moment trying not to be super obvious about: "Buy this! (but wait for this if you're thinking of buying a Sony product)".
Well I thought 1K was a little premature for the original Xbox, 1080 is 2K and 1K would be something like 720p I guess....
Perhaps he knows how neo and then Scorpio will trigger a backwards landslide for the original console with regards to resolution. /S
Re messaging I thought he had been quite clear, Scorpio is designed to allow 4K, it's powerful enough to hit 4K. Obviously anything lower is also possible but they want Xbox one to be seen as 1080 and then Scorpio would be higher than 1080 even if they increase pixel prettyness. They also want to (at least until Scorpio launch) keep the idea the games are the same so Xbox one is still powerful enough for 1080 and perfectly viable. It's a tight path and I think given the mid generation stuff they have managed it fairly well. Perhaps I missed all the conflicting click bait?
His giant bomb interview made it all pretty clear to me.
Perhaps he knows how neo and then Scorpio will trigger a backwards landslide for the original console with regards to resolution. /S
Re messaging I thought he had been quite clear, Scorpio is designed to allow 4K, it's powerful enough to hit 4K. Obviously anything lower is also possible but they want Xbox one to be seen as 1080 and then Scorpio would be higher than 1080 even if they increase pixel prettyness. They also want to (at least until Scorpio launch) keep the idea the games are the same so Xbox one is still powerful enough for 1080 and perfectly viable. It's a tight path and I think given the mid generation stuff they have managed it fairly well. Perhaps I missed all the conflicting click bait?
His giant bomb interview made it all pretty clear to me.
Then why say it is?!
This isn't hard
1) was the message ambiguous. No (not in the EG article).
2) did Spencer say 4K only. Yes
Clearly 2) is fact (in and out of context) and 1), though some are managing to see wiggle-room in the choice of language, is pretty solidly on point about Scorpio being a 4K machine. Go through and do some stats on how often it's associated with 4K versus how often it's mentioned devs have freedom to do what they want.
Also there's really no such thing as PR noise. If the PR is noise, it's not PR. PR is about building positive public relations, getting people to trust you and following your vision. Mixed messages and confused consumers is a lack of PR and just random waffling. EG have an article just gone up about how confused they get with MS' contradictory messages. - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...ssages-at-e3-arent-pretty-for-xbox-one-owners.
That's MS's fault here. For years now. Rather than defending them (perhaps they defend themselves in the board room which is why they keep generating all this noise), everyone should wake up and smell the coffee. They failed to communicate Kinect and always-on visions whcih likely damaged the product and appeal and cost them notable business. They failed to communicate RotTR clearly such that people were up in arms for no good reason, making MS the enemy. They've failed to tell us what Scorpio actually is. MS's business operations are messed up and they need to fix them rather than be excused, for Business Reasons. Has nothing to do with fanboys and platform bias, and everything to do with consumers positively relating to the company and vision and MS being able to get people behind their products. That needs clear messaging, we all accept, and clear messaging is something MS are pretty bad at, I think because their console business playbook was lost in the wash and now they're making it up as they go along.
"We're showing Scorpio at E3."
"This early? Okay, how do we manage the message and expectations, generate interest and yet not affect XB1 or Slim sales?"
"I don't know. My dog ate the plans."
"Again?! Damn, I'll have to wing it in the interviews again. Keep me abreast of what our Twitter campaign is doing so I can respond as needed. And keep a record of the interviews I do today because I'll have to read them all tomorrow to find out what I said."
I'm having visions of the British sit-com "Yes, Minister"...
They have 2 different products ranges.
Product A is focused at 1080p
Product B is focused at 4k
As we have seen with Product A, it's not really always 1080p is it? Sometimes it's lower. Other times it dynamically adjusts as needed and even the frame rate can vary within that spectrum. However, for all intents and purposes it's targeted for 1080p. Can we agree to that?
Product B will be similar. It'll be upto 4k and can vary depending on the use case.
Does that mean categorizing Product A as 1080p and Product B as 4k is lying or deceiving? If you think in absolutes, yes it is. However, most people understand these are areas of focus and there is flexibility built on either side depending on the use case.
Still, if you're going to have multiple products occupying the same space, you need to set a different target range to make it easy for mass marketing. Marketing is best when the messaging is simple. Start talking about every possible scenario and you end up in a jumbled mess. What these guys are fighting against is that the hardcore vocal community only ever wants to discuss every option possible so they can go "HA! YOU LIED!" and get a like or a custom tag on a message board.
As we have repeatedly seen, the vocal online gaming enthusiasts always seem to have too much time on their hands trying to analyze and dissect every word while cross-referencing with different sources to prove inconsistencies. The general population doesn't do that and for them this is an easy way to digest the product differentiation and decide accordingly.
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Then don't talk about it, exactly as Sony have done.
[reason] will disappear by Christmas 2017.
Kinda of. It's managing the truth. Technically you don't lie with PR, but spin and cloud the truth to cover up your message. Politics is the ideal application. If the answer to the question is one you don't want to give, you don't answer it but squirm and spin. We all hate this, but it's the only way to avoid an awkward response without being caught in a lie/falsehood. The other options are say nothing and lie.
This is, I think, the crux. The PR message is wrong, the product isn't clearly decribed, because what MS are trying to do is not launch a product but stall interest in a rival. It's probably the wrong move - I think they should have kept their mouths shut. Maybe reveal Scorpio ina teaser, take Sony's thunder, but then don't comment when asked and say you've got an incredible product in 2017 which you'll talk about nearer the time. There was no need for any of this.
Given the context, announcing a product you don't want to sell yet that might compate with interest in your current product line, MS's muddled message is probably their best option. But it's still ended MS in the crapper again and that keeps happening. Instead of blaming that on the whole world being anti-MS, culpability should be accepted. Only then will MS get to a point where they can communicate with the public without constantly putting their foot in it and confusing everyone. MS fans should be wanting that too - if they weren't crap at communicating, the original vision of an always on console with excellent game sharing may well have happened and made gamers lives better. The reason Nintendo and Sony etc. don't come in for the same stick is because they are better at communicating effectively, but they'll still being at the hostile end of a PR mess if they make one.
Yes.
Which is the problem. Does Product A have a 720p mode in its games to play the same games in higher pixel quality/framerate at lower res for people with only 720p or SD sets? No. It's 1080p. Every game has one resolution, like every console before. Will Product B have both a 4K game mode and a 1080p game mode for gamers who don't have 4K sets? That's never happened in a console before. Let's ask MS to clarify the position so we know exactly what this console will offer us...