Mixed Information on Consoles or How I learned to loathe PR *spin off*

[Shifty Geezer]

Isn't stalling with no comments being obtuse? It certainly isn't being transparent.

It's saying you're not wanting to talk about it yet. I personally wouldn't call that obtuse. Obtuse is using (many) words and saying little. Keeping silent is saying nothing. Being transparent is using words to inform people. Being silent may be just as annoying as being obtuse, but they aren't the same thing. In fact I'd say being silent is preferable as at least you know then where you are. Reading/hearing lots of words which don't really have any meaning but trying to find one in them isn't many people's idea of a good time.

What we really like is transparency. That always goes down well. Sometimes that's bad business sense though.

 

[dobwal]

MS attempt to merge PC with the Xbox shouldn't be looked as just a play to cater to current PC gamers. A rather large segment of PC gamers are converted console gamers. Extra long gen cycles invite such conversions.

Sony's PS4 Neo is an attempt to stymie such conversions while MS doesn't mind you converting just as long as it can keep u in their ecosystem. One way is to release a ton of titles that are only available in the MS store. And the easiest way to do facilitate that reality is through first party titles.

 

[BRiT]

Why call it anything other than a leak? Internal and specialist documents are never going to be drafted to be PR friendly as they'd lose their exactness. Can you imagine if the development specs for an upcoming console were nothing more than, "most powerful consolle we've ever built, redefining gaming, socially powerfully, a new era of wonderment," just in case those docs got leaked?!

Now that the cat is out of the bag, Sony's messaging begins (or is stalled with no comments). At which point they'll either be transparent or obtuse, generate positive PR or confuse and annoy. But until they approach the public with a public message, their plans and information don't need to be public friendly.

No. Sony does have a public statement out there and it is on par with the MS statements. You nitpicked the MS statement to death, now apply the same behavior to Sony.

 

[BRiT]

Sony dropped most of the specs and features of PS4 at their February 2013 reveal it was only the case they hadn't shown. They had games being played live on stage, they dropped the 8Gb GDDR5 bombshell, revealed the architecture makeup and showed the dashboard and DualShock 4. Microsoft did show the Xbox One at their May 2013 reveal but obviously there was obviously nothing substantial about Scorpio.

You don't seem to hear much from Larry Hyrb these days. Poor bloke probably can't get a look in with Phil Spencer everywhere!

You mean Major Nelson who hosted each episode of the XBox Live Daily show during E3 this year? Who is still listed as Director of Programming for XBox Live.

 

[MrFox]

Ok, for one you are comparing an interview that is edited for brevity vs one that is published in full. But it's no more specific and no less vague than Microsoft's plans for Scorpio. Whatever worries you have about one you should have about the other. You can read it however you want, but if you apply the same standards to what either company is saying you should come to more or less the same conclusion. Treat both executives with the same suspicion, but I don't for a second believe that either one is out to screw you.

You seem to be suspicious that Spencer is only promising that Microsoft published games will work on both consoles, but frankly that is a stupid reading of his answer. It's only 3 paragraphs so it doesn't require interpretation, right?

It does, I'm very worried about the whole mid-gen thing, so are many gamers. I said for quite a while that I'm disagreeing with it's existence, including PS4 Neo, and that the most critical thing is how it will be communicated to gamers. Look around all the hatred on the net when PS4K leaked, it was the same for XB1-2. They have one shot at an official unveiling. MS is once again all over the place. The media picked up on this.

Look at this sequence:
- Last year: XB1 and PS4 are almost tied in performance because overclock, shape, DX12, esram, etc...
- This year: XB1 and PS4 are not powerful enough for VR, so we won't allow any headset on XB1.

It can't be both. VR games are on PS4, they are at E3, 50 games for a launch in 2016, we know it works fine, journalists and gamers say third party games have a softer image on PS4 (compared to the 980ti) but they play perfectly. You can dismiss those things from MS as "used car salesman tactic", but that's why many gamers are paranoid and over analysing "What's their angle THIS time, there must be something again".

You think it's really funny when I say they should mention it's all games except VR in one clear sentence, and promise it will last for the rest of the cycle, but it's not obvious to many players. It wasn't clear XB1 or XB1S would never get a VR headset, because last year's news headline was "Oculus announces xbox partnership at E3". When many of the explanations are proven to be BS the whole messaging becomes open to interpretation.

 

[MrFox]

Reading/hearing lots of words which don't really have any meaning but trying to find one in them isn't many people's idea of a good time.

That's how I feel reading this thread.

*badum* *tsssss*

 

[Shifty Geezer]

No. Sony does have a public statement out there and it is on par with the MS statements. You nitpicked the MS statement to death, now apply the same behavior to Sony.

I'm not following the news that closely. If they have made such an announcement, I'll be equally critical. Last I knew, Sony said to the Financial Times that they had a new console but weren't going to talk about it at E3.

 

[RancidLunchmeat]

MS attempt to merge PC with the Xbox shouldn't be looked as just a play to cater to current PC gamers. A rather large segment of PC gamers are converted console gamers. Extra long gen cycles invite such conversions.

Sony's PS4 Neo is an attempt to stymie such conversions while MS doesn't mind you converting just as long as it can keep u in their ecosystem.

Eh? I don't see the NEO as a reactionary attempt to stymie anything. Sony has invested greatly in PSVR as the next big thing, they realize the PS4 is inadequate to deliver the appropriate experience so they had to do a mid-cycle refresh.

When MS was talking to PC developers about what they needed from MS in order to facilitate the Xbox As Software transition, the conversation turned to VR (which developers are really excited about) and then to their demands which were for a 6Tf console. MS couldn't get one out this year, but they think AMD will be ready in 2017.

This is all information that is all available in those many interviews that people seem to find so damn confusing.

 

[BRiT]

I'm not following the news that closely. If they have made such an announcement, I'll be equally critical. Last I knew, Sony said to the Financial Times that they had a new console but weren't going to talk about it at E3.

Read this thread. It has the Sony statement already in it.

 

[iroboto]

I have no idea whether announcing early or late is better.

On one hand, you announce early and you have time to get feedback, maybe tweak things, let people come to grips with the idea. But it's a risk to sales in the short term, because you have a long period of time where people can be skeptical of what's available now.

Other hand, you announce late and you can come out with a complete story leaving no question about what the product is. The risk is people can feel like they've had the rug pulled out from under them, or maybe there are details people aren't happy with and there's no time to respond.

I'm not a marketing research firm. I have no idea which of the two is right. I can see pros and cons to both and Microsoft and Sony with both say they chose the right way.

I think if it's expected or you are bringing in an entirely new market segment you want to ride that hype.

If you are changing the norm, I think it makes sense to communicate over a long period of time.

But I feel you summarized it well.

I get people get emotional about it, and their investments, people want the most for their money. And it's perfectly valid to have that discussion now and MS will tweak and alter their platform until consumers agree that it's worth it for them.

1.5 years is a long time, while some folks will harp on MS forever I don't think anyone can deny that in 1.5 years of keeping that dialogue on-going and with the community open, they've had a significantly better product than when it launched. The platform is significantly Better than when it launched. Perhaps this will always be this uphill battle for MS, quite possibly forever, they don't have the good will with their customer base that Sony or Apple has and this is the only way to go about it.

With Sony, I see a lot of people just accepting it, and even if they had done something wrong they have enough good will in the bank to be overlooked a couple of times.

It's anecdotal, but just looking at how angry people are at something in which they have had no personal investment in yet is loud and clear.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Read this thread. It has the Sony statement already in it.

Please link to it. I'm only following direct replies (or short posts!). Not reading much of the board at the moment.

 

[dobwal]

Eh? I don't see the NEO as a reactionary attempt to stymie anything. Sony has invested greatly in PSVR as the next big thing, they realize the PS4 is inadequate to deliver the appropriate experience so they had to do a mid-cycle refresh.

When MS was talking to PC developers about what they needed from MS in order to facilitate the Xbox As Software transition, the conversation turned to VR (which developers are really excited about) and then to their demands which were for a 6Tf console. MS couldn't get one out this year, but they think AMD will be ready in 2017.

This is all information that is all available in those many interviews that people seem to find so damn confusing.

"House said that one of the key motivations for PlayStation 4 Neo was specifically to prevent high-end users from abandoning the product at an earlier point than its natural eight-year lifespan. “We’ve traditionally seen that some of the core audience tends to gravitate back to high-end PCs at some point because these are the people who want the finest graphical performance,” he said. “So here’s a great opportunity to have them stay within our ecosystem"."

 

[Shortbread]

I have no idea whether announcing early or late is better.

On one hand, you announce early and you have time to get feedback, maybe tweak things, let people come to grips with the idea. But it's a risk to sales in the short term, because you have a long period of time where people can be skeptical of what's available now.

Other hand, you announce late and you can come out with a complete story leaving no question about what the product is. The risk is people can feel like they've had the rug pulled out from under them, or maybe there are details people aren't happy with and there's no time to respond.

I'm not a marketing research firm. I have no idea which of the two is right. I can see pros and cons to both and Microsoft and Sony with both say they chose the right way.

The key to good marketing (specifically PR) is to be clear and upfront with the product(s) and/or service(s) messaging - with very little room for error and/or questioning the intent (integrity) of the message. But that's in a bubblegum filled world...

In the real world, consumers just have to do their homework and not take everything at face value. Companies will (and do) take certain liberties (on being creative) with their products and services messaging.

Deserved, or underserved, Microsoft just has a habit of creating backlash with their messaging and intentions through the years.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Please link to it. I'm only following direct replies (or short posts!). Not reading much of the board at the moment.

I haven't seen an actual statement, just a lot of stories based off the financial times article. And what do we have here?

However, the new console will not be revealed at E3 2016, like many people had expected. Sony is not ready to announce a potential release date or price for the console either.

“All games will support the standard PS4 and we anticipate all or a very large majority of games will also support the high-end PS4.”

According to House, the new console will target hardcore gamers with a keen interest in 4K content, as they will require a 4K television to get the most out of the system.

Read more at http://www.trustedreviews.com/news/...-won-t-be-at-e3-this-year#FFLWgGkIrQJkdKwV.99

So, effectively he's saying if you have a 1080p tv, the Neo is not for you? Sound familiar?

 

[MrFox]

Please link to it. I'm only following direct replies (or short posts!). Not reading much of the board at the moment.

https://forum.beyond3d.com/posts/1923798/

 

[dobwal]

The key to good marketing (specifically PR) is to be clear and upfront with the product(s) and/or service(s) messaging - with very little room for error and/or questioning the intent (integrity) of the message. But that's in a bubblegum filled world...

In the real world, consumers just have to do their homework and not take everything at face value. Companies will (and do) take certain liberties (on being creative) with their products and services messaging.

Deserved, or underserved, Microsoft just has a habit of creating backlash with their messaging and intentions through the years.

Good PR is easy when your product is well accepted. Everybody's PR tends to rank of horse shit when chinks in the armor are exposed, Sony and Nintendo included.

The PS4 Neo and Scorpio seems to be a year and more away (less for Neo). We have no hardware and no eminent release dates. Time will expose all necessary details.

 

[dobwal]

So, effectively he's saying if you have a 1080p tv, the Neo is not for you? Sound familiar?

Well there is possibility of DSR holding u over until you upgrade to a 4K TV. That's if Sony or MS brings the feature to consoles.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Well there is possibility of DSR holding u over until you upgrade to a 4K TV. That's if Sony or MS brings the feature to consoles.

Shifty said X1 gamers would be betrayed if they found out scorpio games ran better at 1080p as Microsoft was marketing it as a 4k box. He was using that as the basis for them having confusing messaging. Appears Sony's statements have left the same potential scenario.

 

[MrFox]

I haven't seen an actual statement, just a lot of stories based off the financial times article. And what do we have here?
So, effectively he's saying if you have a 1080p tv, the Neo is not for you? Sound familiar?

No, who they target is not the same as who they don't have anything for from the same device. Financial times article... This interview is about target markets. The other interview is to consumers, and he said both graphics performance and 4k. It's still true a 4k is necessary to get the most out of neo, xb1s, and scorpio.

Read the eurogamer interview again:

If you can't afford a 4k TV we have a product for you, it's called the xbox one S.

He pulled a Mattrick there.

 

[Nesh]

Pretty much, yeah. I don't see why they would have added an UHD BluRay drive and HDR rendering capability for games (even going so far as to free up additional system resources for devs so they could enable it) to a console design that they were intending to transition away from quickly. I expect that the XBOne will hang around for some time as MS's option for price-sensitive consumers.

They would have been stupid to announce Scorpio without announcing a revision of the original XBOX One. Otherwise it would have been a fast kill of the current XBOX One sales for a year until the next XBOX is released. Still a cheaper manufacturing process and you have no clue how much "engineering" went through to add these small extras. Clearly the cheaper manufacturing process is worth the "engineering".