The issue isn't the *amount* of engineering required. (BTW, what's up with your use of quotes around engineering? Hardware and software engineering is what led to those added features.) The issue is that if, as you say, they intend to quickly move on from the XBOne, why add any features at all. Why not just cost cut the design and make it super cheap? Wouldn't that make it easier to get people to transition to Scorpio on it's release since they wouldn't have spent as much on their existing console?
Mixed Information on Consoles or How I learned to loathe PR *spin off*
- Thread starter rockaman
- Start date
-
- Tags
- snowflakes
The issue isn't the *amount* of engineering required. (BTW, what's up with your use of quotes around engineering? Hardware and software engineering is what led to those added features.) The issue is that if, as you say, they intend to quickly move on from the XBOne, why add any features at all. Why not just cost cut the design and make it super cheap? Wouldn't that make it easier to get people to transition to Scorpio on it's release since they wouldn't have spent as much on their existing console?
Or, you know, they just have tiers of products with different capabilities at different price points. Companies do that sometimes.
Sure thing, we'll invite you to an xbox lobby...
RancidLunchmeat
Veteran
Huh? And?
Sony has banked everything on PSVR. This statement from House doesn't change any of that.
If you are a PS4 owner and you really believe that PSVR will work perfectly on the PS4, why are they launching a NEO?
You use THIS statement as proof? Yet, they've also already said that NEO games must work on the PS4.
You have to have some sort of severe cognitive dissonance to believe that the PS4 will run PSVR games perfectly and they are launching the NEO just for a slight boost in fidelity, not because Sony realized the PS4 is inadequate to sell the PSVR and they needed a performance boost.
There is nothing difficult at all about what happened here, it's clearly obvious in all of the statements made from both Sony & MS, and from the blueprints that AMD released.
Nuh.... the filth!
D
Deleted member 11852
Guest
Yes, Major Nelson if you want to use his Twitter handle. I just don't see much of him these days outside of Microsoft's channels for their customers. A quick timeline google of "major nelson interview" shows a huge amount of activity with the gaming press up to 2013, after which it plummets. That would explain it.
How's Albert 'Xbox would never concede a power advantage" Penello doing these days? For that matter what's Ken "get a second job" Kutaragi up to?
"We have a product for people who can't afford ScorpNeo, it's called PS4Bone".
"You'll have the same games on ScorpNeo as PS4Bone - no-one gets left behind!"
"ScorpNeo will be the best way to experience 4K gaming and VR!"
Only real difference is MS's commitment (?) to portable libraries, and that they've dropped the cash to engineer and produce a pimped up 4K HDR slim. Which is being taken as a sign of their imminent abandonment of X1 and / or consoles depending on who you talk to.
"You'll have the same games on ScorpNeo as PS4Bone - no-one gets left behind!"
"ScorpNeo will be the best way to experience 4K gaming and VR!"
Only real difference is MS's commitment (?) to portable libraries, and that they've dropped the cash to engineer and produce a pimped up 4K HDR slim. Which is being taken as a sign of their imminent abandonment of X1 and / or consoles depending on who you talk to.
Xbox one isn't going anywhere. They are going to ride that to the grave. The S is $300 this year , it will be $250 or $200 next year. They will bring that as close to $100 as they can.
The key part that people are missing is that MS wants you in their ecosystem. They want you to get that xbox one s just so you get an account and you buy a few games dd or heck next year they may give you a few play anywhere titles for free with the console.
That's what they want , because they want you to think to yourself. Hmmm its time for a new console , do I get a ps4 neo , ps5 ? Oh wait I have these xbox 360 , xbox one games that will play on scorpio and some will even look better . Oh its also the most powerful system ? Well that's where I'm going and I get to play with all my friends and if I buy games on scorpio I will get the play anywhere edition (which you just know will include xbox one , pc , scorpio in the future) . Oh I'm going to buy a laptop. Hmm here is a mac book or oh wait look this alienware or whatever windows pc will play those play anywhere games I got... well that's awesome oh and I can use my new xbox one controller with Bluetooth on this thing ? That is awesome .
That is the point.
I would expect later this year or next year for MS to make deals with some tv companies to give away an xbox one s with their 4k HDR tvs .
OH and you can bet that Minecraft 4k and Minecraft Vr will be console exclusive to Xbox Scorpio.
D
Deleted member 11852
Guest
I have only seen the original FT story (confirming there will be a new console, it'll have a more powerful processor, it can output at 4K) and this same message being repeated.
Can somebody who thinks Sony's messaging on Neo is confusing please link to the conflicting statements? I understand that lack of information is frustrating, but I am not confused because they've not given enough information to confuse me. I know a new version is coming and it'll be more powerful. But you know, duh, this is every product ever.
This is what I expected. I played with DSR on my PC. Unsurprisingly targeting a 1440p render resolution and downsampling to 1080p gives a great picture compared to targeting just 1080p. The Eurogamer article (no benefit for 1080p TV owners) implied this and disappointment was my first reaction.
Nobody is debating this. Arguably potential Xbox One / Xbox One S owners are in the better position because they have clarity on when Scorpio is launching, whereas nobody knows when Neo is launching.
This whole thing began when Microsoft said one one thing (devs can use the 6Tf how they like, which implies Scorpio games can look better on a 1080p TV) and something else (Scorpio will not look better on 1080p TVs). This is undeniably conflicting information. You yourself said you ignored the conflicting statement. Like Horatio Nelson holding his telescope up to his blind eye declaring 'I see no ships', you're declaring there is no inconsistency because you chose to ignore it.
Then there was the issue about Scorpio exclusives. Phil Spencer has said there won't be any exclusives and yet Microsoft's general manager of game publishing, Shannon Loftis, said it was up to the developer. Now he did preface this with "I don't know" but if you don't know, stop talking right there. Don't just say more words that pop into your head. Because the statements implies that Microsoft will allow Scorpio exclusives.
Also
it would have been a potential bad messaging if they didnt announce a revised XBone but have announced just the Scorpio. People would have been suspicious. Whereas a revised console sends the message "hey we are supporting it all the way". Heck people are already suspicious as it is hence the existence of this thread.
Also you have no info about how much "engineering" (yes I put it in " " on purpose) it was required to slap those extra features (which to me are not very significant) as part of making it cheaper to produce.
So yes. Revision+Cheaper to produce+cheaper to sell=maintain the brand, maintain some sales and some market share, improve the financial position of the product and prepare the ground for Scorpio. It is still a year away!
Last edited:
Okay. That's an ambiguous statement because it's a vernacular remark (and not a direct answer to a clear question). Is the 'highest graphics performance' 4K or something else, and 4K is a second option for wanting a PS4? Let's go with 'high end is 4K'. So the message is Neo is all about 4K only, right?
Is there a statement somewhere saying Neo is going to provide enhanced 1080p games? From what I recal of that discussion, we were disappointed that the tech doc leaks suggested it was basically upressed, not even smoother framerate.
Indeed by the way part of the PR quagmire comes down to the fact the fact that the XB1 is not perceive as a proper 1080p system so whereas the goals of the Scorpio are relatively clear to those willing to read in between the lines of the usual commercial pitches, the XB1 ad 1S is in my opinion the cause of MSFT uneasy communication, they are beaten pretty hard by Sony and it is not getting better. They should have present Scorpio along with the OneS as part of the an evolution of the market while somehow playing more strongly an obvious card in their hand: what their OS and overall software mastery allows them to do with 360 BC, Scorpio BC, etc.
The end result is pretty bad as I don't believe they do not care for the 1S, it looks like a good product with the potential to stop the bleeding of their market share, nobody cares much about the 1s. May be as it launches, gets examined, benched, etc. things are to evolve more positively but the buzz hardly a week after the announcement for a product in which they obviously poured quite some efforts is not existant, which is a pretty sound failure.
D
Deleted member 11852
Guest
How's Albert 'Xbox would never concede a power advantage" Penello doing these days? For that matter what's Ken "get a second job" Kutaragi up to?
Crazy motherfucking Ken. How we miss his clear communication.
I know you put the quotes on purpose. I just don't know what you were trying to communicate by putting them. That it was not actually engineering? That, "yeah, it was engineering, but not *real* engineering."?
Thank you for restating your post. I obviously lost the "slowly transition" part in the reading and I apologize for misinterpreting what you said. We seem to have issues communicating sometimes, but this one was clearly on me.
I don't believe the plan is to deliberately move away from the XBOne platform, at least until they are in a position to move Scorpio down to the budget box and introduce a new SKU at the high end. Instead, I see it the way function does. They will let the market dictate when they transition away from the XBOne by the all mighty MAUs.
WTF. It is a quote from House and it clearly states that one of the motivations for Neo is to encourage gamers to stay with the platform by reducing the fidelity gap between consoles and pcs that happens over time during a typical console. Is that the only motivation for Neo. No. VR probably plays into that equation. But even if VR played perfectly on the PS4, you would still have to deal with a gap in fidelity that would drastically grow over time in VR games.
Neo is happening for many reasons and I am just stating one.
It's super easy to understand, and I don't even think it's conflicting unless you don't understand that people generalize as they're speaking. Don't be a dick and try to twist one forum post I wrote and all the other posts I wrote in this thread that explain my position. It's almost like taking one single answer out of an interview, stripping it of all context and ignoring the volume of information that clarifies it.
D
Deleted member 11852
Guest
No dickish intended, so apologies.
Yes, silly me
I missed all those million (billions?) of posts the last few year about "OMGOSH LOOK AT THS PLAYSTATON EXCLUSIVES GRAPHIOCS!!!" too. Everywhere on the internet, such minor hole in the wall places as www.youtube.com. I had my head buried in some sand.
You may be different, and fine with Neo being 50% less powerful than Xbox Scorpio (somehow not sure I believe it though). that's cool. I didn't like One being 50% less powerful than PS4, speaking for myself..
I think power matters far more at launch than with an upgrade that is more than a year out when the generation is likely well established with great games and talk beginning to turn to the next generation and the new technology which drive the hardware decisions. If PS5 and Xbox Next launched with a huge delta it would influence my decision toward one or the other, however as it stands I am perfectly fine with my PS4 for the type of gaming I do today.
Presently I'm far more inclined to buy an XB1 than repurchase another PS4 bc investing in a new platform gives me access to type of games I know I like that I can't play now. My position changes though if VR turns out to be a hit and I decide to buy PSVR, I could be persuaded to upgrade to NEO if it tangibly improves the experience and VR becomes important to me.
To put it another way as things stand NEO is solving a problem I don't currently have and any investment in hardware at this point for me would be to gain access to games I can't currently play - XB1 for MS exclusives or PSVR to play VR titles. That is a decision I have not made yet because in both cases neither platform has enough to justify the investment but with Gears 4, Recore and several other exclusives already or coming to Xbox soon its far more likely I buy an Xbox than PSVR and in either case NEO is the least likely purchase in my future and power hardly factors into my decisions regardless.
I'll add that if NEO isn't out in the next 6 months I would not be interested regardless because an $800 or more investment (NEO plus PSVR) in this generation would not make sense to me in late 2017/early 2018. At that point I expect to be enjoying lots of good software as this generation begins to enter the final 18 to 24 months and I'll be looking forward to what comes next from Sony and MS.
Sony has this fall to convince me to invest in VR, otherwise I'll wait it out for the next iteration and frankly if I'm engaged in core gaming the PS4 I've owned to date is sufficient for that. NEO and Scorpio are not that important to me at this point and I struggle to see anything objective that changes that until more information is available.