Microsoft rumored to be buying...... [2020-04, 2020-07, 2020-11]

[Deleted member 11852]

Fable had 3 games basically, Gears & Halo had 5 or 6 (I don't count remakes and off shoots). You talked about not cranking sequels yet I stated that Uncharted had 4 games, GoW had 4 etc. If those are not sequels than what?

This is what I wrote: Sony have a habit of giving their franchises some legs but not relentlessly cranking out sequel after sequel. Naughty Dog didn't release four Uncharted games in a row, Santa Monica didn't work exclusively on God of War for 25 years. Relentlessly being instructed to work on only one IP is why Bungie left. The Coalition (Gears) were formally known as Black Tusk Studios and demo'd a new IP in 2012. The Microsoft bought the Gears IP from Epic in 2014, renamed Black Tusk and Coalition and now working Gears, perhaps until they all die.

Claim of what? I said that Sony has limited support of mods.

And you have not backed that claim with facts. I set out the technical issues and you said, "It had some different issues rather than MP3.". You quoted a reddit claims of the MOD limit being 19 mods on PS4 which isn't correct, even some years back the MOD limit was 100 mods.

I asked for facts, not claims.

 

[chris1515]

You could technically explain it that MS wanted to gain the market share in console market. Being underdog at least can explain certain stuff. It is not like Sony's money hatting time exclusivity for the games that would come to PS anyway due to it being a market leader.
And MS was blamed for that and even now still some folks - rightfully - blame MS for their past shenanigans with PC gaming.


According to some rumours sony wanted to pay 5 bil for Bethesda and MS increased the bid to 7.5.


I don't think they will be release a lot more PS4 games to PC. PS5 will probably provide more games to PC on the later date. Regarding MS Store...I do believe that MS will purchase Valve sooner or later. Sony it seems more into EGS though.


Actually it reminds me of the argument I always hear on the Internet that if Sony does it - it is a business. MS does it - it evil. I understand that what Sony is doing is for their own profit, it is just what MS is doing is for the profit too. And that would not be problem if the same attitude towards both, but - due to bigger sony community - Sony gets a free pass, while MS - doesn't.

According to a better rumor, Amazon or Google wanted to buy Bethesda and MS was ready to pay a lot to not let any opening to Amazon or Google gaming cloud ecosystem.

MS is not evil, they are a business like Sony and Nintendo.

I think its fair to want MS to buy a company over Sony or Nintendo because of a higher likely hood of it coming to steam , xbox and xbox pc . MS has been releasing almost everything day on date on both platforms. Until Sony / Nintendo do the same its hard to argue that it would be more consumer friendly.

If people want so much to play Nintendo and Sony games, there is a solution buy a PS5 or a Switch.

I think consolidation of the industry coming from the different platform holder is bad and the best is to have third party releasing games everywhere and the same with temporary third party exclusive this is a shitty practice.

MS or Sony or Nintendo buying a publisher this is the same it locked some content inside an ecosystem. Sony and Nintendo player will maybe not be able to play Bethesda games. There are players who don't play on PC at all.

 

[Jay]

If people want so much to play Nintendo and Sony games, there is a solution buy a PS5 or a Switch.

MS or Sony or Nintendo buying a publisher this is the same it locked some content inside an ecosystem. Sony and Nintendo player will maybe not be able to play Bethesda games. There are players who don't play on PC at all.

Updated quote to show a somewhat double standard to what you've said.

If people want so much to play Xbox games, there is a solution buy a Xbox or a PC, Stream them.

Fact is Xbox you even have more options than the other platforms.

 

[chris1515]

Updated quote to show a somewhat double standard to what you've said.

Fact is Xbox you even have more options than the other platforms.

Again Xbox, PC are the same ecosystem. This is the Microsoft ecosystem. There are people out of this ecosystem. My PC is not powerful enough to play games and I don't have an Xbox. Some people have a mac or very rare use linux.

There is no double standard. There is only one ecosystem the Xbox One the PC is part of this ecosystem because Microsoft sold the OS Windows. And the Playstation ecosystem is pretty big more than 113 million consoles sold and probably at the end more than 100 million Nintendo console sold. This is not little ecosystem.

The best is third party releasing everywhere on PC, Xbox, Playstation, Nintendo, Mac, Stadia, Luna, Linux... Linux is easy if you do a Stadia game.

 

[liams]

Again Xbox, PC are the same ecosystem. This is the Microsoft ecosystem. There are people out of this ecosystem. My PC is not powerful enough to play games and I don't have an Xbox. Some people have a mac or very rare use linux.

There is no double standard. There is only one ecosystem the Xbox One the PC is part of this ecosystem because Microsoft sold the OS Windows. And the Playstation ecosystem is pretty big more than 113 million consoles sold and probably at the end more than 100 million Nintendo console sold. This is not little ecosystem.

The best is third party releasing everywhere on PC, Xbox, Playstation, Nintendo, Mac, Stadia, Luna, Linux... Linux is easy if you do a Stadia game.

The thing is games normally only release on 3 of those platforms that you stated, with the switch maybe getting a badly running port later on.

If you want to play the numbers game the PlayStation and switch install base is insignificant, especially when accounting for the overlap in ownership between the two consoles, infact 50% of switch owners also own a ps4 (ref below). So your looking at 150 million devices, compare that to say 80m xbox consoles (A little less than what the 360 did, I'm guessing this is how many consoles they will sell this gen), plus over a billion windows 10 devices, plus android and ios, the reality is that those other platforms are insignificant.

Anyone who wants to play those games already has a device that can play them, even if it's not the best experience so what? The series S version of the game isn't the 'best version' of the game either, the series x has higher frame rate/ resolution options, and if you want better than that get a pc. Its exactly the same thing if your primarily a mac/ios user, you can stream the games if you want but if you want a better experience buy better hardware.






https://gamingbolt.com/over-50-of-switch-owners-own-ps4-over-40-own-xbox-one-npd-group

 

[Deleted member 11852]

If you want to play the numbers game the PlayStation and switch install base is insignificant, especially when accounting for the overlap in ownership between the two consoles, infact 50% of switch owners also own a ps4 (ref below). So your looking at 150 million devices, compare that to say 80m xbox consoles (A little less than what the 360 did, I'm guessing this is how many consoles they will sell this gen), plus over a billion windows 10 devices, plus android and ios, the reality is that those other platforms are insignificant.

I've not seen any more recent figures than 2019, but back then Steam had a billion accounts but just 90 million were active. A billion Windows 10 devices =/= a billion Windows gamers unless you count bored office workers playing Mine Sweeper.

I don'y fully agree with Chris1515 that Windows is Microsoft's ecosystem analogous to Xbox either. Microsoft own the operating system but the ecosystem is open so Microsoft do exert influence over Steam, Epic Games Store, U-Play, Origin etc. Microsoft can influence technology direction with their APIs but in reality this is a collaborative process Microsoft undertaken with significant software vendors and hardware manufacturers.

 

[eastmen]

According to a better rumor, Amazon or Google wanted to buy Bethesda and MS was ready to pay a lot to not let any opening to Amazon or Google gaming cloud ecosystem.

MS is not evil, they are a business like Sony and Nintendo.



If people want so much to play Nintendo and Sony games, there is a solution buy a PS5 or a Switch.

I think consolidation of the industry coming from the different platform holder is bad and the best is to have third party releasing games everywhere and the same with temporary third party exclusive this is a shitty practice.

MS or Sony or Nintendo buying a publisher this is the same it locked some content inside an ecosystem. Sony and Nintendo player will maybe not be able to play Bethesda games. There are players who don't play on PC at all.

So its okay for a company to buy game and lock them away if its a company you like ? Because I don't see you upset about Insomniac ? I've been following this industry for a long time and Sony made their name money hatting multiplatform games to come to their systems like Tomb Raider 2. No one seems to care unless its MS doing it however.

Companies buy each other all the time and if you want the industry to stay healthy it has to happen

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

I've not seen any more recent figures than 2019, but back then Steam had a billion accounts but just 90 million were active. A billion Windows 10 devices =/= a billion Windows gamers unless you count bored office workers playing Mine Sweeper.

But the same logic can be applied to Playstation? Despite having 120 mil. PS4 it doesn't mean that each of them will buy a game. I mean taking even mobile market - despite being humongous games flop there too. So size of the market doesn't matter.

And you have not backed that claim with facts. I set out the technical issues and you said, "It had some different issues rather than MP3.". You quoted a reddit claims of the MOD limit being 19 mods on PS4 which isn't correct, even some years back the MOD limit was 100 mods.

No I provided the link that stated that PS4 has less storage for mods, does not support external assets for example. Whether it is technical limitation or whatever, but the fact is that there was bickering back and forth regarding mod support between Bethesda and Sony and even originally Sony did not even want to support mods at all. Same story was with crossplay. What is the current state of affairs right now I have no idea though.
Of course being a market leader Sony can do whatever and people will accept it, but it does not create a good impression. (then again like with any popular product it will sell anyway).

The Microsoft bought the Gears IP from Epic in 2014, renamed Black Tusk and Coalition and now working Gears, perhaps until they all die.

Well, it sells and just like with a lot of other western companies they tend to still to the games that sells. Like infinite amount of CoD, EA Sports, AC etc..
Though we probably don't know if they are even forced to do that. Just like a lot of people thought that MS forced Rare to develop games for Kinect.

 

[chris1515]

So its okay for a company to buy game and lock them away if its a company you like ? Because I don't see you upset about Insomniac ? I've been following this industry for a long time and Sony made their name money hatting multiplatform games to come to their systems like Tomb Raider 2. No one seems to care unless its MS doing it however.

Companies buy each other all the time and if you want the industry to stay healthy it has to happen

Insomniac has work most of the time with Sony, this very different. Imo Microsoft buying Playground Games is logic and when they bought Bungie or Gears of War ip this is the same. Insomniac multiplatform effort was a failure with Fuse and they tried to do their own ip, this was a failure. If tomorrow Sony buy Housemarque or Bluepoint this is ok. If they have bought Codemasters, it was shitty. Same Nintendo buying Next Level Games is logic.

If MS buy ASOBO studios, this is ok.

Insomniac tried to stay independant, they refuse Sony proposal before but after try other thing like work with a big third party publisher and try to own their ip, it didn't work. And Sony bought them for an hefty price knowing they have no big ip.

I would say than if Xbox player were fans of Sunset Overdrive and the title was a huge commercial success, Insomniac would have stay independent.

After someone needed to buy Bethesda, if it was not the case some studios would have close. They aren't the most productive publisher of the world. Fallout 76 is a commercial failure, Arkane Lyon games does not set sales on fire, Elders scroll online sales were ok but not great. They don't release Fallout and Elders Scroll very often. Out of Doom, they didn't have so many very recent big successful release and Wolfenstein was not a big commercial success too.

EDIT: Tencent would have been a better buyer than MS, Sony, Nintendo, Google or Amazon for Bethesda. They release games on every platform.

Ninja Theory, Obisidian, InExile, Double Fine and others are all ok, this is not like they are studios with tons of money and being independant for little studios is hard.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

So its okay for a company to buy game and lock them away if its a company you like ? Because I don't see you upset about Insomniac ?

Are you referring to Spider-Man? Because Sony didn't buy a game, Sony paid Marvel for a licence to use the Spider-Man IP then paid Insomniac make a game with that paid-for IP. Much like TT continue to pay Marvel for their IP and made Lego Marvel games which also include a bunch of Spider-Man IP.

Sony don't own Spider-Man in games. You sound annoyed that Microsoft won't pay Marvel for the IP to make a game with a character you like.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

But the same logic can be applied to Playstation? Despite having 120 mil. PS4 it doesn't mean that each of them will buy a game.

Yup. The the only console platform where a game will reach a significant portion of the user bae is Switch, just look at sales of Breath of the Wild and Mario Kart 8. On PlayStation and Xbox it's generally considered a wild sales success if you sell to 15-20% of the console base.

No I provided the link that stated that PS4 has less storage for mods, does not support external assets for example.

The 'external' asset issue is the (MP3) codec issue. PS4 mods can (and do) use external assets as long as the assets are stored using a codec supported by PS4's SDK. What the heck are you going to fill 900mb of mod space with if there are no external assets? Asset-less mods are all a few hundred kilobytes! Even the Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch, which fixes hundreds/thousands of bugs, is under 10Mb. The other threads you listed were making claims which were untrue.

Well, it sells and just like with a lot of other western companies they tend to still to the games that sells. Like infinite amount of CoD, EA Sports, AC etc.. Though we probably don't know if they are even forced to do that. Just like a lot of people thought that MS forced Rare to develop games for Kinect.

Don't you want variety in games? Don't you want talented teams to be able to create something knew? That is clear what Black Tusk wanted to do before Microsoft made them work on Gears forever. They developed, and made a trailer for a brand new IP. Then Microsoft canned it and renamed the studio.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Yup. The the only console platform where a game will reach a significant portion of the user bae is Switch, just look at sales of Breath of the Wild and Mario Kart 8. On PlayStation and Xbox it's generally considered a wild sales success if you sell to 15-20% of the console base.

Really? I don't think that each game sells 70-60 million there. Or is it?

Don't you want variety in games? Don't you want talented teams to be able to create something knew? That is clear what Black Tusk wanted to do before Microsoft made them work on Gears forever. They developed, and made a trailer for a brand new IP. Then Microsoft canned it and renamed the studio.

I don't think Turn10 is bored with Forza for example. Current MS it seems is not limiting teams to some stuff.

 

[chris1515]

Are you referring to Spider-Man? Because Sony didn't buy a game, Sony paid Marvel for a licence to use the Spider-Man IP then paid Insomniac make a game with that paid-for IP. Much like TT continue to pay Marvel for their IP and made Lego Marvel games which also include a bunch of Spider-Man IP.

Sony don't own Spider-Man in games. You sound annoyed that Microsoft won't pay Marvel for the IP to make a game with a character you like.

Insomniac only ip is Sunset Overdrive and it is a dead end because the first game is a big commercial failure.

 

[see colon]

Insomniac has work most of the time with Sony, this very different. Imo Microsoft buying Playground Games is logic and when they bought Bungie or Gears of War ip this is the same. Insomniac multiplatform effort was a failure with Fuse and they tried to do their own ip, this was a failure. If tomorrow Sony buy Housemarque or Bluepoint this is ok. If they have bought Codemasters, it was shitty. Same Nintendo buying Next Level Games is logic.

If MS buy ASOBO studios, this is ok.

Between 2014 and 2019 (when they got purchased by Sony) Insomniac released 14 games and only 2 were Sony exclusives, with a 3rd appearing on PS4 but also Xbox and PC. In those 5 years preceding their purchase they made more games for Oculus than anything else.

Insomniac's recent work wasn't mostly on Playstation, but Playground has only made games for Microsoft. Their only released titles were made from an existing MS IP. When Microsoft bought Bungie... Holy crap, the Macintosh world was sent into a frenzy of hate because Bungie was not only one of the few developers who prioritized the platform, and made exclusives, they also published a handful of games made by smaller studios. They certainly weren't known for working with Microsoft at the time. Asobo... They released 9 games in the last 5 years and 2 of them appeared on PS4. That's a higher ratio of PS4 games than Insomniac had, so would it be OK for Sony to buy them?

The one thing I've learned in life, and it's especially true with video game culture. You can't apply logic, grant or deny permission for someone to be upset about something. In the case of corporate acquisitions IRT video games, someone is always going to act as though they are being unjustly denied the right to experience a title. It might be even worse in the retro community where the perpetrators of piracy act as though they are unjustly forced into the practice because Bubble Bath Babes needs to be played but it's somehow not available anywhere for a price they want to pay.

Insomniac only ip is Sunset Overdrive and it is a dead end because the first game is a big commercial failure.

Or are you talking IP that they created or IP that they own? They own FUSE also, unless they sold it after the game was released. It was published via EA Partners, which has the defining feature of the developer keeping the IP. Also, I think they own the IP for most of the games they made for Oculus.

 

[Jay]

That is clear what Black Tusk wanted to do before Microsoft made them work on Gears forever. They developed, and made a trailer for a brand new IP. Then Microsoft canned it and renamed the studio.

Just to put the record straight as I've seen this said a couple times.
The studio had the option to chose gears, and it wasn't forced on them by MS.

How many gears games has coalition made? Not that many unless you're including pop and tactics which are totally different genres of games, oh and a remaster.

Now MS have have enough studios that give individuals, teams and studios more options.

 

[chris1515]

Between 2014 and 2019 (when they got purchased by Sony) Insomniac released 14 games and only 2 were Sony exclusives, with a 3rd appearing on PS4 but also Xbox and PC. In those 5 years preceding their purchase they made more games for Oculus than anything else.

Insomniac's recent work wasn't mostly on Playstation, but Playground has only made games for Microsoft. Their only released titles were made from an existing MS IP. When Microsoft bought Bungie... Holy crap, the Macintosh world was sent into a frenzy of hate because Bungie was not only one of the few developers who prioritized the platform, and made exclusives, they also published a handful of games made by smaller studios. They certainly weren't known for working with Microsoft at the time. Asobo... They released 9 games in the last 5 years and 2 of them appeared on PS4. That's a higher ratio of PS4 games than Insomniac had, so would it be OK for Sony to buy them?

The one thing I've learned in life, and it's especially true with video game culture. You can't apply logic, grant or deny permission for someone to be upset about something. In the case of corporate acquisitions IRT video games, someone is always going to act as though they are being unjustly denied the right to experience a title. It might be even worse in the retro community where the perpetrators of piracy act as though they are unjustly forced into the practice because Bubble Bath Babes needs to be played but it's somehow not available anywhere for a price they want to pay.


Or are you talking IP that they created or IP that they own? They own FUSE also, unless they sold it after the game was released. It was published via EA Partners, which has the defining feature of the developer keeping the IP. Also, I think they own the IP for most of the games they made for Oculus.

Again Insomniac tried out of Sony and it did not work as they wanted. They tried VR, AR, owning their own IP, working with another platform holder Microsoft. They tried everything. No tremendous success. Same did they want to only do VR title if they go with Facebook/Occulus? At the end, they received a good offer by the partner they worked the most* and where they release the most successful title and can work on AAA or VR title. This is full logic. Bungie wasn't the powerhouse they are now if Sony or MS or Amazon or Google buy them now people won't be happy and this is normal.

Did I say it would be ok for Sony to buy Asobo? I said it would be logic for MS and the biggest success of Asobo is Flight Simulator. This will be normal for Microsoft to buy one studio working on one big MS ip even if this studio work on other successful game like a Plague Tale...

Will Sony buy Asobo? No way because they like to have successful collaboration with the studio they acquire. Out of one exception, they tried to buy Leyou technologie(Warframe and other titles) because it is strategic and they will apply different logic. They are ready to paid more money for a publisher/studio very strong with GAAS and multiplayer games and it was interesting too because they had some success in China. They are weak into this gaming segment. But good luck to buy chinese studio, it will never happen, they will go to Tencent.

PC gamer or Xbox gamer didn't lost tons of things with Insomniac because the best and most successful title they created were with Sony and they did not have any good ip. They aren't Bungie with Destiny...

After all of this is business, MS could not let Amazon or Google buy Bethesda and it would have been the same shit block into one ecosystem and I would say worse because the ecosystem at least for now is much less successful.

EDIT:
They grow a bit and they have three game directors Brian Horton, Marcus Smith and Bryan Inthiar maybe one director will try a new franchise out of R&C and Spiderman.

*Insomniac doesn't exist since 5 years and what they did before with Sony count in the decision to lose their independence.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Really? I don't think that each game sells 70-60 million there. Or is it?

Well Breath of the Wild infamous sold more copies at launch than Nintendo made Switch consoles ;-) But no, by significantly I mean vastly more than games that are considered 'high sales' on PlayStation and Xbox.

I don't think Turn10 is bored with Forza for example. Current MS it seems is not limiting teams to some stuff.

I think the car nuts are a special breed for dev. The same seems true with Polyphony (Gran Turismo) and was true for Evolution (Motorostorm, DriveClub) before they closed and is also true of CodeMasters.

Just to put the record straight as I've seen this said a couple times.
The studio had the option to chose gears, and it wasn't forced on them by MS.

Fair enough.

How many gears games has coalition made? Not that many unless you're including pop and tactics which are totally different genres of games, oh and a remaster.

Three. Gears Ultimate Edition (2015), Gears 4 (2016) and Gears 5 (2019). Tactics (2020) was co-developed but Splash Damage took the lead credit.

Now MS have have enough studios that give individuals, teams and studios more options.

It'll be interesting to see if there is much internal movement within MGS in the coming years. You don't tend to see this with Sony, at least not with senior positions.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Well Breath of the Wild infamous sold more copies at launch than Nintendo made Switch consoles ;-) But no, by significantly I mean vastly more than games that are considered 'high sales' on PlayStation and Xbox.

Just to provide some data for this. Nintendo titles are the only single SKU titles that consistently rank in the top 5 in sales year around. For example, in Nov. NPD.

Best selling of 2020

1. NEW Call of Duty: Black Ops: Cold War Activision Blizzard (Corp)
2. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare Activision Blizzard (Corp)
3. Animal Crossing: New Horizons* Nintendo
4. Madden NFL 21 Electronic Arts
5. The Last of Us: Part II Sony (Corp)
6. Ghost of Tsushima Sony (Corp)
7. Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla Ubisoft
8. Final Fantasy VII: Remake Square Enix Inc (Corp)
9. Marvel’s Avengers Square Enix Inc (Corp)
10. Super Mario 3D All-Stars* Nintendo

Rolling 12 month best selling

1. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare Activision Blizzard (Corp)
2. Call of Duty: Black Ops: Cold War Activision Blizzard (Corp)
3. Animal Crossing: New Horizons* Nintendo
4. Madden NFL Electronic Arts
5. The Last of Us: Part II Sony (Corp)
6. Ghost of Tsushima Sony (Corp)
7. Star Wars: Jedi: Fallen Order Electronic Arts
8. Mario Kart 8: Deluxe* Nintendo
9. NEWAssassin’s Creed: Valhalla Ubisoft
10. Final Fantasy VII: RemakeSquare Enix Inc (Corp)* Digital sales not included

Also note that Nintendo doesn't report digital sales of any of their published titles to outside tracking services like NPD.

To put that into perspective. Animal Crossing there is 3rd despite being on a single platform compared to COD. It's also on a smaller install base compared to TLOU 2 (which also include digital sales numbers).

To further put this into perspective.

Nov. 2020 Best Selling

1. Call of Duty: Black Ops: Cold War Activision Blizzard (Corp)
2. Assassin’s Creed: Valhalla Ubisoft
3. Marvel’s Spider-Man: Miles Morales Sony (Corp)
4. Madden NFL 21 Electronic Arts
5. NBA 2K21* Take 2 Interactive (Corp)
6. Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity* Nintendo
7. Watch Dogs: Legion Ubisoft
8. Animal Crossing: New Horizons Nintendo
9. FIFA 21 Electronic Arts
10. Demon’s Souls Sony (Corp)
11. Mario Kart 8: Deluxe* Nintendo
12. Super Mario 3D All-Stars* Nintendo
13. Just Dance 2021 Ubisoft
14. New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe* Nintendo
15. Luigi’s Mansion 3* Nintendo
16. Mario Kart Live: Home Circuit Nintendo
17. Super Smash Bros. Ultimate* Nintendo
18. Marvel’s Avengers Square Enix Inc (Corp)
19. Mortal Kombat 11 Warner Bros. Interactive
20. Ghost of Tsushima Sony (Corp)

Animal Crossing is still charting. Only one COD is still charting. TLOU 2 is no longer charting. Hell, we have Nintendo titles that released last year charting (well it is the Holiday season after all). Oh and 8 of the top 20 games are published by Nintendo.

And this is consistent for Nintendo. Their only platform that failed to consistently chart year round was the Wii-U, and even that still had titles that would chart in the top 20 even if they wouldn't sell enough to remain within the Yearly or 12 month rolling best sellers.

It can't be stated enough how no other company on the planet sells more games than Nintendo. And they do it on only 1 platform. Over the course of a year, they generally sell more games than any other publisher (including EA, Activision, etc.) ... On A Single Platform ... Without Counting Digital Sales. It's absolutely mind bogglingly bonkers.

Regards,
SB

 

[tuna]

The best is third party releasing everywhere on PC, Xbox, Playstation, Nintendo, Mac, Stadia, Luna, Linux... Linux is easy if you do a Stadia game.

Stadia runs on Linux.

 

[chris1515]

Stadia runs on Linux.

I know but studio probably need to do a bit of additional work for making working on other jardware system.