MGS2 tearing

[JacksBleedingEyes]

A few threads back PC-Engine was making a big deal out of a MGS2 tearing problem.
Can someone explain to me what exactly tearing is cuz IMHO opiniong other than low rez textures, the graphics were pretty rock solid to me.
Im interested to see if PC-Engine had a valid point or was just pissing against the wind.

 

[zidane1strife]

Im interested to see if PC-Engine had a valid point or was just pissing against the wind.

Well i'd say the latter applies...

From what i've seen of MGS2 it could only be the screen tearing in half as if the upper portion was out of sync with the lower one. It only happens when u move the first person camera around really fast, and when u go near the edges of the platform were u fight the fat guy... None of these actions are necessary for gameplay, and as such there was no real problem with it...

 

[Guest]

I do not noticed any tearing, but i do see blurred textures and some clipping at the joints of the characters.

 

[clem64]

Finally understanding what he meant by tearing, yeah I do remember MGS2 having that but it was very rare and barely noticeable. What bothered me about MGS2 graphics were the aliasing and the sometimes blurry textures. Everything else was impeccable.

I've always wondered why there was such a huge diference between the cut scenes and the in-game graphics? What effect did they use to make the cut scenes look so sharp and perfect?

 

[Tagrineth]

I've always wondered why there was such a huge diference between the cut scenes and the in-game graphics? What effect did they use to make the cut scenes look so sharp and perfect?

Easy, during cutscenes a lot of CPU-eaters like AI are turned off.

 

[PC-Engine]

A few threads back PC-Engine was making a big deal out of a MGS2 tearing problem.
Can someone explain to me what exactly tearing is cuz IMHO opiniong other than low rez textures, the graphics were pretty rock solid to me.
Im interested to see if PC-Engine had a valid point or was just pissing against the wind.

If you had read what zidane posted in that thread, you wouldn't have had to waste bandwidth by creating this one. If you can't handle the truth, find a new hobby man

It's a big deal not because it affected gameplay, but because for a game that took almost 3 years to develop and running on a 6.2 GFLOPS monster shoudn't be having these kinds of trivial problems.

BTW the only thing artistic about MGS2 is the cutscenes unlike ICO where everything screams art. Dragons Lair was one big, gigantic, artistic cutscene.

It's a good game, but it's not the second coming, however, the intro sound track was good which was expected since the composer also did Hollywood movie soundtracks.

 

[clem64]

It's a big deal not because it affected gameplay, but because for a game that took almost 3 years to develop and running on a 6.2 GFLOPS monster shoudn't be having these kinds of trivial problems.

So just knowing how long it took to develop MGS2 makes tearing a problem when you're playing the game? If it had taken 6 months to develop, the tearing wouldn't bother you?

 

[PC-Engine]

It's a big deal not because it affected gameplay, but because for a game that took almost 3 years to develop and running on a 6.2 GFLOPS monster shoudn't be having these kinds of trivial problems.

So just knowing how long it took to develop MGS2 makes tearing a problem when you're playing the game? If it had taken 6 months to develop, the tearing wouldn't bother you?

Huh? read it over and come back to me when you've grasped the concept?

I'll make it easy for you considering you're a newbie.

If it had taken 6 months to develop, the tearing wouldn't bother you?

If it had taken 6 months, I would've expected it to have some graphic problems and some other problems, but since it took a quarter of a decade, I was expecting perfection, considering the platform and the accompanied hype. Nowhere in any of my previous posts did I mentioned that gameplay was compromised. The original thread wasn't about gameplay.

 

[Tagrineth]

PC-Engine, he's totally right. There's no need to point out he's new here, especially in semi-disparaging terms, HE HAS A POINT.

 

[clem64]

Huh? read it over and come back to me when you've grasped the concept?

I have. What am I supposed to have missed?

I'll make it easy for you considering you're a newbie.

If it had taken 6 months, I would've expected it to have some graphic problems and some other problems, but since it took a quarter of a decade, I was expecting perfection,

That's fine. If the game has little problems like that, it's a reason to be surprised. But why does it have to be a "big deal"? You said big deal presumably because it bothers you in some way. My point was simply that there's no reason to let things like the power of a console or development time affect how you view the game as a whole.

Nowhere in any of my previous posts did I mentioned that gameplay was compromised. The original thread wasn't about gameplay.

I said "during the game". I didn't talk about gameplay. Ok perhaps that wasn't clear. "When you're looking at the game", you're saying the tearing is a big deal. My point is that if the tearing was all over the place, a little like aliasing was in the PS2 launch titles, then that would fall in the category of "being a big deal". Since it'd hardly noticeable, I wouldn't say it is. And IMO it's silly to take the power of the hardware and dev time into consideration. The tearing either bothers you or it doesn't. The two previous things have nothing to do with it.

 

[PC-Engine]

PC-Engine, he's totally right. There's no need to point out he's new here, especially in semi-disparaging terms, HE HAS A POINT.

Says who?

To me the tearing is a Major Dissappointment!! I was expecting better. Is that so difficult to comprehend???

Did I say it affected gamplay??? NOOO!!

Can graphics be dissappointing? YEESSS!!!

Does it have to affect gameplay??? NOOO!!!

Was the original thread about gameplay??? NOOO!!!

Do I make myself clear???

 

[archie4oz]

If it had taken 6 months, I would've expected it to have some graphic problems and some other problems, but since it took a quarter of a decade, I was expecting perfection, considering the platform and the accompanied hype.

Mind showing me the physical law that determines that all graphical problems can be solved in 6 months? Please do! It would make my life soooo much easier! Seriously though, you could spend 5 years on a title and still have issues, especially if it's your first title on a platform. There's always going to be little things that slip by, or are too much of a PITA to fix in time, or you end up finding a simple fix working on a later title...

Besides if you're expecting perfection, then you seriously need to learn how to manage your expecations or your enjoyment of videogaming will have a pretty short life.

 

[Tagrineth]

PC-Engine, he's totally right. There's no need to point out he's new here, especially in semi-disparaging terms, HE HAS A POINT.

Says who?

To me the tearing is a Major Dissappointment!! I was expecting better. Is that so difficult to comprehend???

Did I say it affected gamplay??? NOOO!!

Can graphics be dissappointing? YEESSS!!!

Does it have to affect gameplay??? NOOO!!!

Was the original thread about gameplay??? NOOO!!!

Do I make myself clear???

Dude, CHILL, I was saying that clem64 had a point about how RIDICULOUS it is that you're complaining about minour tearing solely on the grounds that a three year development should result in a perfect experience SEE ALSO LIONHEAD / MOLYNEUX and WELL OVER 3 YEARS FOR CRAP.

EDIT: See also what Archie said.

WTH is up with people's standards these days? Image tearing in MGS2 = majour complaint, one guy won't even play games which don't use Trilinear Filtering... jeeze...

 

[PC-Engine]

If it had taken 6 months, I would've expected it to have some graphic problems and some other problems, but since it took a quarter of a decade, I was expecting perfection, considering the platform and the accompanied hype.

Mind showing me the physical law that determines that all graphical problems can be solved in 6 months? Please do! It would make my life soooo much easier! Seriously though, you could spend 5 years on a title and still have issues, especially if it's your first title on a platform. There's always going to be little things that slip by, or are too much of a PITA to fix in time, or you end up finding a simple fix working on a later title...

Besides if you're expecting perfection, then you seriously need to learn how to manage your expecations or your enjoyment of videogaming will have a pretty short life.

Every game to me doesn't have to be perfect

But if I have to wait a quarter of a decade...

AFAIC MGS2 would've been perfect if it wasn't for the PS2s architecturally developer unfriendly design

The fact is, KONAMI - a very talented bunch, would be releasing graphically flawless games on a more developer friendly console not to mention much sooner. If you can't accept that then too bad!!

And please don't use small development studios as an example. Konami is far from small

Anyway that's just my 2 cents and have a nice day all

 

[LogisticX]

Do I really want to bring up your futile need to defend Shenmue then? How long was Shenmue in development? You'd expect more from something that took so long to make.
(Yeah, I thought I'd jump right into this).


You're making a big deal out of nothing is what these people are trying to say......trying to illustrate that a quarter of decade was spent making the game means nothing....first of all, its closer to 1/3 of a decade ( ) and its also the fact that 3 years of development ISN'T SPENT ON GRAPHICS ALONE.

Do I really have to bring up the fact that MGS2 features some of the most insanely detailed physics and computer AI?

That takes TIME to do. Time that apparently you'd rather have something stupid like MINOR tearing to be fixed.

Me personally? I'll take the physics and AI thanks. Jerk.

 

[PC-Engine]

Do you really want to bring up Shenmue? Considering Shenmue was developed on a relatively inferior console? As a matter of fact no one thought it was even possible on DC

So yeah you can talk about Shenmue if you like, but in your case its FUTILE!

We can add up all the graphic flaws in Shenmue and compare it to all the graphical flaws in MGS2 if you like

The ball is in your court pal..

and its also the fact that 3 years of development ISN'T SPENT ON GRAPHICS ALONE.

Yeah please tell me something I don't already know. Actually you are correct though, the rest of the time was spent on fighting the hardware that is PS2

 

[Tagrineth]

Dude, Shenmue's graphics aren't THAT great, there's a lot of clipping, popping, and most characters have one index finger and a 'lump' of other fingers.

And they wasted a LOT of polys on Ryo's bloody HAIR.

I probably don't spend as much time on my hair as they did on his!

edit: The effect of the graphics are especially injured by the average frame rate...

 

[PC-Engine]

Dude, Shenmue's graphics aren't THAT great, there's a lot of clipping, popping, and most characters have one index finger and a 'lump' of other fingers.

And they wasted a LOT of polys on Ryo's bloody HAIR.

I probably don't spend as much time on my hair as they did on his!

edit: The effect of the graphics are especially injured by the average frame rate...

Of course it wasn't, but what is the game engine doing or should I say juggling?

Considering the fact it didn't take more than a quarter of a decade to release and on inferior hardware to boot

The fact is SEGA wasn't spending 3 yrs fighting the hardware

Oh did I mention progressive output?

 

[Tagrineth]

Of course it wasn't, but what is the game engine doing or should I say juggling?

Considering the fact it didn't take more than a quarter of a decade to release on inferior hardware

The fact is SEGA wasn't spending 3 yrs fighting the hardware

In this case I don't see your point, other than no bloody duh PS2 is harder to programme. In fact IIRC DreamCast is one of the easiest consoles to code of all time (minus proper SH-4 optimisation).

 

[PC-Engine]

Well you have the pieces to the puzzle so now all you have to do is connect them.

difficult to program = long development times and/or graphical flaws

Isn't that what i've been preaching all along?

Oh btw I've noticed that the PS2 supporters always use the DC as an example and the reason is obvious, it's older and inferior hardware so they think they can get a leg up in the argument, yet to their surprise it always backfires in their face?

Would the PS2 supporters care to compare MGS2 with a game on GCN or Xbox that didn't even take 3 yrs to develop???? Probably not and I don't blame them