Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

[Cjail]

There are 21 different predator take downs but most feel like the same takedowns and are automatically performed by a press of a button depending where you are hiding. I simply stood in places and waited for the enemy to come close to press triangle. Some of them you dont even know why they are considered different takedowns than others. MGS V has none of the automations that other similar games tend to suffer a lot from
MGS V has an element which is lacking in both Splinter Cell and Batman(I havent played dishonoured). There are lots of experimentation. Things can happen which you didnt even know were possible in the game. I am sure many of them even Hideo Kojima didnt think were possible. The game has so many interactions and variables which give a lot more ways to blend them and see what is going to happen. The player has more freedom to be creative

MGS V does it too.
Example: your are in cover, press/hold attack button, Snake attack/grab an enemy.
How is supposed to be a downside for a game, all games do it, all games require to press button to trigger an action/animation that is anyway scripted and that we can't control.

It's not I hate MGSv it's just I would like to do more, I see so many things that I can't do:

I see a red door and I wan to paint it black peek though its hole.
I wan to be able to free climb, hell we have a bionic arm but they dint' think about a grappling hook to scale walls...wasted opportunity.
I want to be able to cut fabric and grab enemies though it like Sam Fisher so many tents and you can't cut shit.
I want to have lethal CQC throws and counters too, why can't snake use the knife in combat, it's stupid.
We have drones but can't sue them to scout eh map: idiotic as well.
Why no Hand of Anubis that lets you teleport..wasted opportunity too.

Anyway as of now I am playing it a sniping game and I am having fun, also now that I have S rank all missions I am free to kill everyone...finally.
AND I really recommend Dishonored, consider the HD remaster if you never played.

 

[messyman]

MGS V does it too.
Example: your are in cover, press/hold attack button, Snake attack/grab an enemy.
How is supposed to be a downside for a game, all games do it, all games require to press button to trigger an action/animation that is anyway scripted and that we can't control.

It's not I hate MGSv it's just I would like to do more, I see so many things that I can't do:

I see a red door and I wan to paint it black peek though its hole.
I wan to be able to free climb, hell we have a bionic arm but they dint' think about a grappling hook to scale walls...wasted opportunity.
I want to be able to cut fabric and grab enemies though it like Sam Fisher so many tents and you can't cut shit.
I want to have lethal CQC throws and counters too, why can't snake use the knife in combat, it's stupid.
We have drones but can't sue them to scout eh map: idiotic as well.
Why no Hand of Anubis that lets you teleport..wasted opportunity too.

Anyway as of now I am playing it a sniping game and I am having fun, also now that I have S rank all missions I am free to kill everyone...finally.
AND I really recommend Dishonored, consider the HD remaster if you never played.

Eh, except we can control what Snake does in CQC.
You can grab enemy's weapon mid CQC for hold up or to shoot him.
You can slam him down the floor.
I can use an enemy as a human shield.
You can counter enemy attacks with CQC. You can also perform multiple take downs too.

 

[Cjail]

^^^
You are miss-reading me...I was replying to the part in bold.
Oh and in MGS V we have very few CQC moves compared to Batman that is a fact.

I really don't see this immense variety when it comes to CQC.
Why can't Snake use his knife and kill people in one move without having to grab them first, that's really stupid and painfully slow.
Oh and why is Snake so weak, he can smash somebody's head on a wall but they will get up 30 seconds later.
Why can't Snake throw the knife or have throwing knives?!
Why can't Snake dismantle guns like The Boss could in MGS 3?
Why is Snake cool in cut scenes and a piece of crap in gameplay!?

 

[Nesh]

MGS V does it too.
Example: your are in cover, press/hold attack button, Snake attack/grab an enemy.
How is supposed to be a downside for a game, all games do it, all games require to press button to trigger an action/animation that is anyway scripted and that we can't control.

For Snake this is considered one move which can be followed by other choices. In Batman you talked about 21 takedowns that are actually one move. The point is Batman doesnt offer the variability you claim it offers

It's not I hate MGSv it's just I would like to do more, I see so many things that I can't do:

I see a red door and I wan to paint it black peek though its hole.
I wan to be able to free climb, hell we have a bionic arm but they dint' think about a grappling hook to scale walls...wasted opportunity.
I want to be able to cut fabric and grab enemies though it like Sam Fisher so many tents and you can't cut shit.
I want to have lethal CQC throws and counters too, why can't snake use the knife in combat, it's stupid.
We have drones but can't sue them to scout eh map: idiotic as well.
Why no Hand of Anubis that lets you teleport..wasted opportunity too.

If we want to be creative we can think about limitless of "missed opportunities" for every game in existence.

 

[Cjail]

Ok, I get it, no more discussion about this game.
I am an idiot for trying.

 

[Nesh]

You are not an idiot. The game does so many things and you are asking from it to do even more. MGS V does things that neither SC nor Batman can do and of course there are things unique to each one of these games. Is it a bad thing that none is a master of all traits? Of course not

Some of the things you ask are even questionable if they would be a good idea. For example, yes, there is a bionic arm. Does this mean the gameplay SHOULD have a grappling hook? Fisher doesnt have a bionic arm. But someone can still ask why doesnt Sam Fisher have a grappling hook pistol like Batman then and freely move on walls, balconies and roofs with a press of a button?

MGS V already has some ridiculous mechanics like a flying fist, Jehuty's arm and wormholes. Jehuty's arm is more like an easter egg, it is a fan service. Is it necessary to have Anubis teleportation powers too? Arent those enough? Is it necessary to go even further? Science fiction ideas can be limitless. Someone may ask: Why not be able to develop an exoskeleton that gives him the ability to slide on his knees like in Vanguish and shoot at people at the same time? Why not being able to develop a HF sword that can cut through Metal Gear and Buildings like Raiden? Why not ask the same for Batman and Splinter Cell then?

Why ask from MGS V to do things that Batman and Splinter Cell do or things none do and not ask the same for these games?

In Arkham Knight, Batman ALSO had a batwing drone and he only used it to scan for the cloudburst! He could have used it to take out soldiers on top of buildings, the huge machine guns in militia fortresses, the flying drones, the tank drones, and.....well you get the idea. Also Batman is a master of non lethal tactics. Where are his tranquilizers? It would have made his life 100 times easier. Why doesnt he have a taser gun? I mean....he is Bruce, possibly the smartest person on the planet. He predicts and calculates every possible outcome. He would want to maximize his non lethal efficiency to the optimum level. Are those "omissions" really omissions? Of course not.

 

[messyman]

^^^
You are miss-reading me...I was replying to the part in bold.
Oh and in MGS V we have very few CQC moves compared to Batman that is a fact.

I really don't see this immense variety when it comes to CQC.
Why can't Snake use his knife and kill people in one move without having to grab them first, that's really stupid and painfully slow.
Oh and why is Snake so weak, he can smash somebody's head on a wall but they will get up 30 seconds later.
Why can't Snake throw the knife or have throwing knives?!
Why can't Snake dismantle guns like The Boss could in MGS 3?
Why is Snake cool in cut scenes and a piece of crap in gameplay!?

No, it's not.
Batman's basic combat ability is punching,countering, and stunning. That's it.

 

[Cjail]

Some of the things you ask are even questionable if they would be a good idea. For example, yes, there is a bionic arm. Does this mean the gameplay SHOULD have a grappling hook? Fisher doesnt have a bionic arm. But someone can still ask why doesnt Sam Fisher have a grappling hook pistol like Batman then and freely move on walls, balconies and roofs with a press of a button?

Fisher can free-climb so he doesn't need a grappling hook because he can already move freely; Snake can't free-climb so having a way to traverse the map would have been nice IMO...I thought about a grappling hook because the bionic arm is there, it has been done before and it's easier to implement than develop a free-climbing system.

Someone may ask: Why not be able to develop an exoskeleton that gives him the ability to slide on his knees like in Vanguish and shoot at people at the same time?Why not being able to develop a HF sword that can cut through Metal Gear and Buildings like Raiden?

There is no destruction model in MGS so Zandatsu would not be possible but you unlock the Skulls Machete for the D-walker which can cut through vehicles' armor as well.
And a HF blade would have been nice, you unlock Raided suit after all and he can't use the Bionic Arm so a gadget would have been nice.

Why ask from MGS V to do things that Batman and Splinter Cell do or things none do and not ask the same for these games?

I am not "asking" anything special or out of this world for Snake.
-Snake should be able to climb.
Even a 2,5 meter tall fence/wall is an insurmountable obstacle, he keeps slipping on 40cm tall rocks, it's ridiculous, it limits freedom of exploration in an absurd way.
-Snake should have more CQC moves with lethal options, nothing out of this world.
I got close to Quiet during the boss battle and disappointingly I wasn't able to disarm her or grab her, you can only kick her once use the run+puch.

 

[dobwal]

^^^
You are miss-reading me...I was replying to the part in bold.
Oh and in MGS V we have very few CQC moves compared to Batman that is a fact.

I really don't see this immense variety when it comes to CQC.
Why can't Snake use his knife and kill people in one move without having to grab them first, that's really stupid and painfully slow.
Oh and why is Snake so weak, he can smash somebody's head on a wall but they will get up 30 seconds later.
Why can't Snake throw the knife or have throwing knives?!
Why can't Snake dismantle guns like The Boss could in MGS 3?
Why is Snake cool in cut scenes and a piece of crap in gameplay!?

All true. However the limitations you put forth of MGSV exists for literally all games in some form or fashion.

Why does Batman carries tools that can trigger electric motors that powers major industrial equipment, causes electrical equipment to explode or electronically disable weapons, all the while Batman lacks any long range weapons necessary to incapacitate (for more than a few moments) enemy NPCs themselves.

For all the wealth and intelligence that Bruce Wayne possess, it makes no sense for Batman to be so dependent on physical combat. But that is who Batman is as a character, so the game is designed with that in mind.

The difference between Batman and MGSV is despite all we know of Snake as a character and his MO in combat situations, the game isn't designed to artifically restrict you to that play style. Snake carrying a knife for lethal purposes is almost like Batman carrying a revolver in his boot. I've personally never used it beyond threatening people for info. And see no reason why MGS needs to lethally expand on the mechanic. Alternatives do exist as drawing and double tapping out of a CQC isn't hard and doesn't involve grabbing.

I could probably rebut each and every one of your points (may be not enough to change your mind), but that would probably produce a really long post that you wouldn't want to read. LOL.

Ultimately, MGSV is different from games like AK or SC in that while those games offer a narrow set of complex mechanics, MGSV offers a broad set of fairly simple mechanics that gives the overall game complexity.

 

[Cjail]

As I said I should not discuss about this game anymore.
As of now I just need to develop the nuke [30 hours left to do that (f*** you Konami/Kojima for that)] then dismantle it to get the Platinum so there's nothing more for me to try in this game because I know it as the back of my hand already.

 

[dobwal]

As I said I should not discuss about this game anymore.
As of now I just need to develop the nuke [30 hours left to do that (f*** you Konami/Kojima for that)] then dismantle it to get the Platinum so there's nothing more for me to try in this game because I know it as the back of my hand already.

Why not? Dissenting views should be welcomed. Nothing interesting about everybody posting long love letters to MGSV here. I have a list of complaints also, just haven't found the right context to mention them here.

 

[orangpelupa]

i want more canned, linear, tughtly directed levels in MGSV.

the opening mission is AWESOME. Then the game just dropped me into open world with story that feels like Destiny (go here do this) with grimoire (cassete tapes).

thankfully the gameplay is truly fun (trolling the bots never gets old)

 

[Nesh]

I am really curious about the location's accuracy in the intro. I have been looking for the hospital in Google maps and searched the name in Google but I found nothing.
The only hospital that I could find something about is at the Sovereign Base in Akrotiri.
Also there seem to be a road tunnel in Akrotiri. They do pass through a tunnel in the game. But the game's setting is located in Dhekelia. Hmmm

Dhekelia and Akrotiri both have British bases btw

 

[Cjail]

Got the Platinum, hell few hours after I started building my nuke my FOB was invaded and they stole all my fuel resource.
I dodged a bullet.

FOB isn't fun at all IMO.
The fact the AI is always aware of your location makes everything worse.

 

[orangpelupa]

@Nesh the hospital is on different map not in the "game"?

can you free froam to the edge of the map in the intro? i think theres a part where you can run around. hmm i wonder what happen if i replay with full-gear.

or the mission is not replay-able like destiny's intro mission?

 

[Nesh]

@Nesh the hospital is on different map not in the "game"?

can you free froam to the edge of the map in the intro? i think theres a part where you can run around. hmm i wonder what happen if i replay with full-gear.

or the mission is not replay-able like destiny's intro mission?

The two locations are tenths of miles apart. The hospital in Akrotiri has a different name and still information is too few. So the hospital in Dhekelia (of which I could find nothing) should be a different one.
From pictures I saw of the Akrotiri Hospital appears different than the one in the game, but looking at google maps I saw nothing that could look like the SBA Memorial Hospital at the Buffer Zone nor the British base in Dhekelia. But Wikipedia does say they have medical support of some sorts in both places. I searched for a road that may lead to a tunnel but as far as I know there is no tunnel. There is one close to the Akrotiri base though. I tried to recognize the port in the game but it is still questionable where such port may be located.

Either Hideo mixed the places, or he had some creative liberty or the places do exist but I havent found them or for "political" reasons he was forced to make changes.
The initial theories from gamers were leading to Akrotiri, also because of a dam that looks like a whales tale in the map and is reminiscent of the Moby Dick studios' logo.

The case of Cyprus is quite a peculiar one in real life too. There was a whole conspiracy so that NATO would acquire strategic bases through the islands separation and ensure no Soviet influence in the island. For military reasons probably Hideo was not allowed to be accurate. Its like one of the tapes say. The Greek junda (at the time), the British, the US and Turkey instigated a Greek coup which would have allowed Turkey to invade and occupy. The US secret services were acquiring intel and helping in the creation of coup forces, the British were camouflaging their planes and were bombarding the place as Turkish air force, Greek officers from the Junda under orders from the US were sent priorly to the island to prevent the Greek Cypriot National guard to defend, and the Turkish army was prepared for the Greek Cypriot coup to happen to jump in under the excuse of Turkish Cypriot protection.. Many Greek Cypriots tried to defend but many died, others captured and are missing as prisoners of war to this day (they were executed most likely) and the rest left as refugees. Turkey went into the island with minimum obstacles in their way. Everything went in accord to Kissinger's plans.

There is no free roam in the intro. You can revisit the intro but you cant roam the environment just as you couldnt in the beginning either

 

[Nesh]

Got the Platinum, hell few hours after I started building my nuke my FOB was invaded and they stole all my fuel resource.
I dodged a bullet.

FOB isn't fun at all IMO.
The fact the AI is always aware of your location makes everything worse.

https://twitter.com/metalgear_jp/status/654957894975164416 I bet you cant do this in Batman or Splinter Cell lol

 

[Nesh]

Btw does it explain later in the game who Ishmael is? For those that dont know the names Ahab and Ishmael were from the book Moby Dick.

When Ahab asks him who he is, he replies "you are talking to yourself" and then he says that he can call him Ishmael. Ishmael is like a person that exists and doesnt exist. Sometimes he appears to not help Ahab physically as if it is impossible to make physical contact. At a point he gets shot and us unconscious but he disappears like he was never there. Also there is another point earlier where he appears to have been shot before pulling snake from a different angle into another room to guard him.

Hideo often puts hidden symbolism in his games like a post modern novel. In the ending of Ground Zeros when Miller says "what about him" while looking at the camera, people asked who was he talking to. Hideo said that he was talking about him. I didnt put this in the spoilers as it says nothing important about the GZ ending.

Ishmael could be either Hideo or the player who are one with the protagonist. In Kojima's panel when he first revealed that Phantom Pain is actually MGS V he appeared with the bandages and revealed himself by removing them.
Ishmael also appears like he went or he was about to go through a facial plastic surgery. Another indication that he may actually represent the player.
Is he also voiced by the same actor as Ahab?

 

[Love_In_Rio]

MGS V has an element which is lacking in both Splinter Cell and Batman(I havent played dishonoured). There are lots of experimentation. Things can happen which you didnt even know were possible in the game. I am sure many of them even Hideo Kojima didnt think were possible. The game has so many interactions and variables which give a lot more ways to blend them and see what is going to happen. The player has more freedom to be creative

Yes, the so-called "emergent" gameplay. Red Faction Guerrilla, Sainst Row, Ultima VII, Bethesda games...are so good because of it and the freedom they give to you.When we talk about about AI in games, we must consider these "emergent experience" games with a different eye. They are in a league of their own and are always more complex (both in gameplay variety and programming) than the more "guided" ones.

 

[Sigfried1977]

The problem with all these systems is that there's pretty much always a really obvious, way safer and much easier way to complete any given goal. Sure, you can use your water pistol to shoot a sleeping guard in the crotch, so when he wakes up he'll run for the next toilet thinking he's pissed his pants in his sleep. When he arrives at his destination you can tranq him, or slit his throat, or do whatever the hell you want with him. Or you can just tranq him in the head right away and be on your way instead. Heck, even the funny decoys are a bit redundant given the unlimited supply of empty clips you can throw instead. The wealth of options is much appreciated, but I wished the game would nudge you towards exploring them every now and again. I also think the limited loadout really spits in the face of all that freedom. I'd be way more inclined to get creative if I could simply pick whatever weapon or gadget I wanna use from a snappy menu like I did in MGS4. Instead I have to not only navigate a clumsy menu. I also have to wait for a supply drop which costs me money every time.
I love the attention to detail, but I'd have gladly traded some of that detail for some hand crafted missions, a better way of traversing the rocky terrain (why the hell can't I climb that 2 foot high rock formation that looks exactly like the one I had no trouble climbing a minute ago?), and a finished game. Half of the game seems like it was designed to facilitate Top 10 videos on youtube.

As for Red Faction Guerilla, Saints Row and, Bethesda games: To me the way emergence works in those games seems almost diametrically opposed to MGSV's approach. In MGSV, you have the option to complete goals which are usually fairly simple by using strategies that are damn near Rube Goldbergian in complexity. In Red Faction and Skyrim, you do insane and unpredictable shit with a simple swing of a hammer or by shouting Fus-Roh-Da in a tavern.