Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes
- Thread starter Alucardx23
- Start date
ROPS and ESRAM bandwidth are what's making the difference. Not ESRAM size.
You can only render a frame as fast as the slowest component of that frame, and while 109GB/s write is probably ok for 16 ROPS, you have to remember it's only 27.5 for any 8MB of screen space (which could cover a 720p/no AA area). So "hot spots" could definitely be bandwidth bound. Had they gone with 32 ROPS and 8 paths to 4MB ESRAM chunks I'm fairly certain the resolution disparity wouldn't exist.
The clock speed increase was to help overcome some of the system reservation and virtualization tax not present on PS4. As such frame rates are mostly similar when not render bound.
You can only render a frame as fast as the slowest component of that frame, and while 109GB/s write is probably ok for 16 ROPS, you have to remember it's only 27.5 for any 8MB of screen space (which could cover a 720p/no AA area). So "hot spots" could definitely be bandwidth bound. Had they gone with 32 ROPS and 8 paths to 4MB ESRAM chunks I'm fairly certain the resolution disparity wouldn't exist.
The clock speed increase was to help overcome some of the system reservation and virtualization tax not present on PS4. As such frame rates are mostly similar when not render bound.
COPS N RAPPERS
Regular
Shame konami couldn't make this port at 1080p on both platforms. The Xb1 version is of even lesser face value as of now.
This may go to show you that few developers will truly take advantage of the tricky architecture. my hopes were up for the fox engine, now it has dwindled.
This may go to show you that few developers will truly take advantage of the tricky architecture. my hopes were up for the fox engine, now it has dwindled.
If you present devs with tricky hardware, it will take time for them to develop a bag of tricks to accommodate the strengths and weaknesses of that hardware. Sony has basically out "xboxed" MS. MS used more user friendly software tools and hardware that helped devs effectively and efficiently push out 360 games. Now, Sony is using a more user friendlier hardware config and a more stable software environment to push PS4 games.
They could have, they chose not to. They could have made it 1080/30 with little additional work, well assuming the eSRAM size was not the killer.
The most important thing in a game is the gameplay and a solid butter smooth 60 fps framerate, not resolution.
djskribbles
Legend
60fps is nice, but it's not very important for a game like MGS IMO. MGS3 and MGS4 were both 30fps.
L. Scofield
Veteran
Is this a surprise to anybody?
XB1 is simply less capable than the PS4. People should just accept it and move on.
XB1 is simply less capable than the PS4. People should just accept it and move on.
COPS N RAPPERS
Regular
I agree that Sony has been doing a remarkable job this gen. I also know of course that the better looking games always come towards the end of a console's lifespan. but this port could have been handled much better, for what is being rendered.
The Xbox one can handle 1080p 60 fps. the GPU inside of my CoreI7 (which is 700 Gflops) can handle Crisis 2 and 3 (@ 360/ps3's settings) at 1080p 60 fps.
When i see stuff like this along with COD: Ghost happening, i'm thinking some developers might not be giving a damn this gen. If that's the case they get less respect from me; these games are expensive games we're talking about.
So becuase of your i7, the XB1 can do MGS5 at 1080P 60fps, but those lazy devs?
I think devs are working just as hard as they have ever done and this gen will provide us with some remarkeable gaming experiences.
The XB1 is just underpowered. It's that simple. Of course it can do 1080p@60, it just won't look as good as the competition when it does. And to keep the framerate up it has to dial back on lots of quality effects. This generation is going to see the PS4 doing 1080@60 and the XB1 720-900@60 to keep a parity on render quality.
As long as the games are fun who cares? Of course if you want the best experience then you get the best tool for the job.
Bagel seed
Veteran
Kudos to Kojima for being transparent about it all and doing his own comparo :thumbup:
COPS N RAPPERS
Regular
It's been an average launch; leaning towards this gen being rushed. The experience is about the same as last gen's launch with no games really reinventing any sort of mechanics or AI to the generation established for some time. same goes with the material in many games.
I'm not to concerned with the future it's just For this particular port, the excuses are running thin. In the last gen we were dealing with 240 G-flops machines with 512 mbs of memory. the Xb1 cycles around those numbers by 10 times, And many have already stated that the Esram actually works well for 1080p. ( It's not the better choice but it works well.)
The Next gen version of MGSV: GZ is a port with very minimal improvements, I think obviously konami failed to work with the Esram correctly like a lot of developers are doing.
On the one hand you're saying Esram is easy to work with but then you say Konami didn't manage to use it properly..... Konami isn't exactly a noob developer, they should know what they are doing.
I think its more likely that the some of rumors we had 6 months ago about XB1 tools being incomplete perhaps were true at the time and some launch titles like MGS had to make do with developer work arounds.
On the one hand the Xb1 clearly isn't fully cooked, and the non complete state of the os, ui, etc my very well be extending to the dev tools which will hold people back. On the other hand the Xb1's gpu is simply outgunned, there's no getting around that. There may be an edge case here and there where clever use of esram can provide some form of advantage but for the most part expect this gen to be relatively one sided in the ps4's favor.
shredenvain
Regular
In my opinion the move to x86-64 is the cause for the difference in resolution. Devs begged for this arch change so they wouldnt have to rewrite code for powerpc to port their games over.
Now they can just push the original pc code thru these systems and the unique memory architecture of the Xbox one is not being used to its full extent. With the Ps4 having a similar memory setup to Pc all they have to do is convert the Dx code to opencl and have the game running well with little optimization.
It may be Ms's fault for not having proper tools ready or not allowing proper esram access. People continue to say it is because of the X1's weak gpu but in reality the power difference between the 2 systems is not great enough to justify a gap as large as 1080p vs 720p. I am afraid that multiplat titles for this gen may never take advantage of either systems full graphical abilities. Only console exclusive titles will take advantage of what these systems can really do. This may be an unintended side effect of switching to the x86-64 architecture since devs dont have to start from scratch coding for the consoles special architectue. Then again what do I know?
Now they can just push the original pc code thru these systems and the unique memory architecture of the Xbox one is not being used to its full extent. With the Ps4 having a similar memory setup to Pc all they have to do is convert the Dx code to opencl and have the game running well with little optimization.
It may be Ms's fault for not having proper tools ready or not allowing proper esram access. People continue to say it is because of the X1's weak gpu but in reality the power difference between the 2 systems is not great enough to justify a gap as large as 1080p vs 720p. I am afraid that multiplat titles for this gen may never take advantage of either systems full graphical abilities. Only console exclusive titles will take advantage of what these systems can really do. This may be an unintended side effect of switching to the x86-64 architecture since devs dont have to start from scratch coding for the consoles special architectue. Then again what do I know?
COPS N RAPPERS
Regular
I wasn't exactly saying it's easy to work with i was quoting that according to the many beliefs on this site and others; the Esram still works well for gaming at 1080p. If that's true then it's a developer problem, and that they are failing to use the memory correctly.
---------------------------------------------------------------
On the other side of things from what i'm hearing now, is that many others are now saying It's NOT good for gaming at 1080p. If that's true you now have to ask your self, what kind of games were they thinking about when they said it works well? last gen games at 1080p?
MGSV: GZ technically is a game built for the last gen...
Last edited by a moderator:
djskribbles
Legend
60fps comparison video at GT.
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...railers-ak.gametrailers.com/...son_10kbps.mp4
IMO PS4 >> XB1 > PS3 > X360. The ground textures looked a bit better to me on the PS3 version near the end running sequence, but that could be a texture filtering issue since they're at different angles. They're probably more or less identical. XB1 version doesn't look a lot different than the PS3/360 versions, albeit at double the framerate. Difference between the PS4 and XB1 version is bigger than I thought.
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...railers-ak.gametrailers.com/...son_10kbps.mp4
IMO PS4 >> XB1 > PS3 > X360. The ground textures looked a bit better to me on the PS3 version near the end running sequence, but that could be a texture filtering issue since they're at different angles. They're probably more or less identical. XB1 version doesn't look a lot different than the PS3/360 versions, albeit at double the framerate. Difference between the PS4 and XB1 version is bigger than I thought.
Last edited by a moderator:
