Lotus Exige S 240 pwned

[dizietsma]

Fact is, it saved many lives and continues to do so, mostly without even being noticed.

Give us the facts then? How do you measure it even? You cannot.

Most accidents happen in a straight line where ESP has no effect whatsoever, it's only when someone has overcooked it round a corner that it comes into play and that is only for the boy racers. When I am following people they brake into corners doing at least 30mph under the speed their modern tyres will allow.

 

[dizietsma]

For someone without an interest in driving (or more of an interest than they have talent ) its no doubt a good thing.

Had to drive the Elise in pouring rain yesterday and roundabouts with standing water certainly focused the mind! Even on the motorway you could occasionally get a twitch from the rear at 70mph as a wheel lifted on top of the water and began to spin. For those not used to it it would have been easy to have a stupid accident even at fairly low speeds.

If ESP or EBC or whatever you want to call it uses brakes mainly to control yaw then it would not have done anything in these conditions to help matters and would only have made it worse.

As you point out in your last sentence " for those not used to it" sums it up, people need to stop relying on electronic whizmo's and start taking some of the responsibility back.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Give us the facts then? How do you measure it even? You cannot.

Most accidents happen in a straight line where ESP has no effect whatsoever, it's only when someone has overcooked it round a corner that it comes into play and that is only for the boy racers. When I am following people they brake into corners doing at least 30mph under the speed their modern tyres will allow.

Weather. You're fooling yourself if you think it doesn't help. My santa fe has ESC (electronic stability control) you can't even make it spin out on a skating rink. Anyone living in a place that gets snow, ice or rain conditions it will make a huge difference. In winter it lets me make a quick lane change without losing control to avoid collisions without losing control myself.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Give us the facts then? How do you measure it even? You cannot.

Most accidents happen in a straight line where ESP has no effect whatsoever, it's only when someone has overcooked it round a corner that it comes into play and that is only for the boy racers. When I am following people they brake into corners doing at least 30mph under the speed their modern tyres will allow.

I know for a fact that my Mercedes ESP has saved my life a couple times.

Every time its rainy the car would be near impossible to control during acceleration, even the slightest tuch on the throttle would instantly make the esp go off. This due to the fact that rwd + 500hp + rain is not a good combination for getting traction. With ESP turned off, accelerating in rain means crazy wheelspin followed by blue rubber smoke.

Now imagine if you have to take a corner, during rain, and try to accelerate? If it wheren't for ESP i would have had quite a few crashes that could have been fatal.

 

[RobertR1]

ESP in the rain is great to have, esp for road use where oils come up in early rain along with other debris. It's a great feature to have but I also like the option to completely turn it off for spirited driving under the right conditions.

 

[ShaidarHaran]

ESP in the rain is great to have, esp for road use where oils come up in early rain along with other debris. It's a great feature to have but I also like the option to completely turn it off for spirited driving under the right conditions.

Exactly. At least for 2WD vehicles. AWD/4WD doesn't need it (in the right hands, of course).

 

[Thorburn]

If ESP or EBC or whatever you want to call it uses brakes mainly to control yaw then it would not have done anything in these conditions to help matters and would only have made it worse.

As you point out in your last sentence " for those not used to it" sums it up, people need to stop relying on electronic whizmo's and start taking some of the responsibility back.

Yep, in that case it was very much a lack of weight and some rather lightly treaded tyres that was the issue.

Couldn't agree more though, people don't have an interest so they don't bother to learn.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

ESP in the rain is great to have, esp for road use where oils come up in early rain along with other debris. It's a great feature to have but I also like the option to completely turn it off for spirited driving under the right conditions.

Totally agreed, unfortunately merc doesn't have that option. It always has some last stand esp stability thing on, wether you turn it of or not.

 

[Thorburn]

Totally agreed, unfortunately merc doesn't have that option. It always has some last stand esp stability thing on, wether you turn it of or not.

I believe some of the newer AMG models do let you switch it off completely, but I could be wrong.

 

[DJ12]

Doubt it, it may let you think it's off, but it ain't.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Doubt it, it may let you think it's off, but it ain't.

I know hyundai's version can be disabled. I've tested it.

 

[DJ12]

Soz, I was referring to Merc/AMG letting you disable it completely.

It is never off in a Merc, even the SLR!

Lots of other marques let you turn it off.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

I believe some of the newer AMG models do let you switch it off completely, but I could be wrong.

Must be some top secret AMG model, as no Mercedes i have driven (and ive driven quite a few) or know off has this feature.

 

[Thorburn]

Soz, I was referring to Merc/AMG letting you disable it completely.

It is never off in a Merc, even the SLR!

Lots of other marques let you turn it off.

I was led to believe the Black Edition models do as they are quite track day biassed, but as I said could be wrong.

 

[DJ12]

Not according to Clarkson.

He says it's more "off" then ever before, but still doing some stuff to spoil the fun.

 

[Thorburn]

Not according to Clarkson.

He says it's more "off" then ever before, but still doing some stuff to spoil the fun.

Hence I'd want a more reliable source

Maybe _xxx_ can give a definite answer.

 

[_xxx_]

Yes, we made it possible to disable ESP completely in some of the latest models via a long button press. Only ESP though, not the anti-slip and brake assist. The new SL for example has that. I'm not even sure about the rest of the black series, the marketing guys were going zig-zag about that for ages and I lost track at some point, but the catalogs should state it where implemented.

 

[RobertR1]

Yes, we made it possible to disable ESP completely in some of the latest models via a long button press. Only ESP though, not the anti-slip and brake assist. The new SL for example has that. I'm not even sure about the rest of the black series, the marketing guys were going zig-zag about that for ages and I lost track at some point, but the catalogs should state it where implemented.

There should be an option to turn off everything except ABS. In all the diff cars I've driven, the systems are much to eager to kick in for spirited driving under the right condition. Not sure why it's too difficult for Merc to put an "all off" option in there....

 

[Cheezdoodles]

Not sure why it's too difficult for Merc to put an "all off" option in there....

Its has nothing to do with difficulty and more to do with image. Its a "political" PR\marketing issue, Mercedes Benz think very highly of their cars, and they want to make sure that they cars are not affiliated with cars crashes etc. Having stability\traction management systems allways on saves Mercedes seing their own cars lying wrecked around every corner whenever it starts to rain. Lets face it, the average mercedes owner is rather old, hes probably not the best driver in the world, and if he has a higher power version, the combination of RWD+lots of hp can be extremely dangerous unless your very careful in rain, snow etc.

As far as people saying there is no truth to ESP saving lives etc, you must live in a fantasy world. Try driving a proper merc in rain or snow without ESP and you will understand quickly that if you drive hard, every time that ESP blinker comes on in a corner, some computer tech just prevented you from most likely driving out of the road. Hell, getting anywhere without ESP and RWD in snow\rain(if you have the power) is very very hard.

 

[_xxx_]

There should be an option to turn off everything except ABS. In all the diff cars I've driven, the systems are much to eager to kick in for spirited driving under the right condition. Not sure why it's too difficult for Merc to put an "all off" option in there....

It's not a question of being able to, but rather politics. I'm not involved on that level, so I dunno why either.