@GhostofWar do you find the input to be noticeably laggier when locking to 40/45 with frame generation than locking to 40/45 without? Or is it equally unplayable at 40/45 for you?
Lossless Scaling. Machine learning Frame Generation and upscaling on ANY GPU!
- Thread starter Cyan
- Start date
GhostofWar
Regular
No the frame gen wasn't making it worse, it feels just as bad to me natively at 40/45. If someone is fine playing at 40/45 natively I think using this to smooth out to 80/90/120 is a pretty viable option.
Cool. That has been my experience, limited as it may be, with frame generation as well. But I know others have complained about the latency being a deal breaker. From my perspective, comparing the latency of 40->120FPS via frame generation compared to native 120 is silly. If I could hit 120 in every game without frame gen I would be doing it. But if I can't, and I'm getting 40-60FPS anyway, then the added motion smoothness is only an added bonus if the latency is the same.
Can you use this in multiplayer games? Or do you run the risk of anti-cheat freaking out?
did you find any artifacts in Elden Ring and so on?
In regards to the Fullscreen, most games nowadays -if not 100%- use Borderless Windowed. Also this app works fine with regular Windowed mode, it just makes it fullscreen. I am used to that since I started to use Magpie -my fav at the time- and Lossless Scaling when they were just apps to apply FSR and similar upscalers for "free" in ANY game. For the upscaler to work you just needed to run the game on either windowed mode or Borderless Windowed.
this is what I found but I can't tell by experience, 'cos I don't own a VR set.
Does this work in VR games? :: Lossless Scaling General Discussions
As the title says, I primarily play VR games, and it's a ♥♥♥♥♥ and a half to run them smoothly even on my 1080Ti. I was wondering if this tool might help before I buy.
tried FIFA 24 -afaik, FIFA 23 used anticheat techonology- and Battlefield 2042, and I could use it. Btw lossless scaling fares well in both games.
Other game I tried is Blazblue Cross Tag Battle Special Edition. Dunno whether it has anticheat or not, but the game works with lossless scaling. It seems the smoothness improves going from 60 to 165fps FG, but it's certainly not as pronounced as on Tekken 7 and its 3D graphics -this game's art looks more like pseudo 3D or 2D-.
Finally, I also tried Isonzo, which I thought was a single player game, but it isn't. I tested it very little but the game can be locked at 60fps and lossless scaling certainly made a difference when enabled. I didn't find any artifact.
That being said, I've performed all the tests mentioned in this thread enabling the Performance mode. Default mode should give better results, though it's more costly on the GPU.
GhostofWar
Regular
Elden Ring uses easy anti cheat and it didn't throw a fit and shutdown the game, Not really playing much other multiplayer stuff currently except gray zone warefare and i'm not sure if that's using any cheat protection yet.
Not really, Elden Ring has a pretty minimal hud and there is no crosshair or other fine line elements that would be easy to notice. I went and fought some knights that have some fast attacks and cast spells including some with particle effects and it all seemed to hold up well, even the lightning effects and buff from my swords weapon art didn't seemed fine. I didn't go in taking screenshots or pausing the game (can't in elden ring anyway) to really hunt down artifacts, it was more me just playing turning it on and off and seeing if I noticed anything while actually playing the game.
tried two of my favourite Castlevania games which I completed a looong time ago, Castlevania 64 and Castlevania Legacy of Darkness, pretty notorious for their 10 something framerates, and using Lossless Scaling the framerate of Castlevania 64 looks slightly smoother.
However, in Legacy of Darkness I didn't notice any difference.
However, in Legacy of Darkness I didn't notice any difference.
Last edited:
tested -again- A Plague Tale Requiem, which I completed months ago, and I remember that I had locked it at 30fps with Rivatuner back then 'cos of the erratic 60fps I got before, and used Lossless Scaling FG when it was a novelty months ago. It enhanced the framerate but it wasn't a great experience so I completed the game just playing on a silent PC at 30fps.
So I did the same with this new version of LS, the experience is much better and it doesn't show framepacing issues. Playing the game at 90fps is excellent. I don't know how to disable the internal scaler of this game, since it doesn't have support for XeSS or similar -except DLSS-, but this is the game with the most artifacts I've played, most noticeable when you rotate the camera. The game's fluidity, is more important than that, but I think the internal upscaer (which I can't disable) and LS don't like each other.
But again, the fluidity, in such a demanding game, is surely something else.
So I did the same with this new version of LS, the experience is much better and it doesn't show framepacing issues. Playing the game at 90fps is excellent. I don't know how to disable the internal scaler of this game, since it doesn't have support for XeSS or similar -except DLSS-, but this is the game with the most artifacts I've played, most noticeable when you rotate the camera. The game's fluidity, is more important than that, but I think the internal upscaer (which I can't disable) and LS don't like each other.
But again, the fluidity, in such a demanding game, is surely something else.
GhostofWar
Regular
Ok so I tried Warframe, I don't play it alot on my own volition now days so I kind of forgot about it. So I used to play it at the full refresh rate of my monitor but a while back but I started locking it to 90fps just to keep the power usage and heat down (about 160 watts cpu+gpu at 1440p 90fps lock max settings, about 80 watts each). Niece wanted me to come play with her before so thought it was a good chance to try out frame gen on it.
This one wasn't great, first up I locked it to 60 and used FG to get to 120. This didn't feel good at all, it felt worse than native 90. I'm not talking about input latency either it just didn't feel smooth, it was weird and i'm struggling to explain it. There were artifacts, this game gets very visually overloaded with damage numbers all over the place, screen full of enemies and particle effects all over the shop and every colour of the rainbow and I generally play melee so i'm moving and jumping alot with attack speed buffs bordering on stupidty.
I'm pointing that out because the only thing I can think of why it felt so rough is maybe because of the artifacts in full motion were making it be perceived as judder. There was no tearing but it felt like how bad frame pacing does with screen tearing. 60 with FG to 120 felt way worse than native 90, native 60 actually felt better.
The good news is this game is pretty light so most people should be able to hit 60 easy enough, the bad news is your probably better just staying with native frame rates on this one.
This one wasn't great, first up I locked it to 60 and used FG to get to 120. This didn't feel good at all, it felt worse than native 90. I'm not talking about input latency either it just didn't feel smooth, it was weird and i'm struggling to explain it. There were artifacts, this game gets very visually overloaded with damage numbers all over the place, screen full of enemies and particle effects all over the shop and every colour of the rainbow and I generally play melee so i'm moving and jumping alot with attack speed buffs bordering on stupidty.
I'm pointing that out because the only thing I can think of why it felt so rough is maybe because of the artifacts in full motion were making it be perceived as judder. There was no tearing but it felt like how bad frame pacing does with screen tearing. 60 with FG to 120 felt way worse than native 90, native 60 actually felt better.
The good news is this game is pretty light so most people should be able to hit 60 easy enough, the bad news is your probably better just staying with native frame rates on this one.
it's pretty incredible that a one person solution works better than an "official" implementation, FSR3 FG, from a GPU maker. 
I tried Lords of the Fallen on PC Gamepass and I noticed that FSR3 FG was available as a setting.
So I set everything and started rotating the camera to test Lossless Scaling.
At the very beginning of the game there is a pile of rubbish on the stairs and I started rotating the camera at 30fps. Then I enabled FSR3, and started rotating the camera, the framerate was smoother of course --though not incredibly smooth.
However I noticed that the pile of rubbish started to glitch so badly because of FSR3. The pile of rubbish started to send sparkles, I couldn't believe my eyes.
So I decided to enable Lossless Scaling (this is where my character punches the wall since I used the Control + Alt + S keyboard shortcut) and it worked PERFECTLY fine when rotating the camera.
I recorded a 1 minute video of the whole thing, so there is proof. (the sparkles start after the 28 seconds mark)
This was the first time I tried FSR3, I am disappoint.
Not only LS didn't show that glitch, but also the game run MUCH smoother at 90fps compared to FSR3 FG -base framerate 30fps on both cases-
I tried Lords of the Fallen on PC Gamepass and I noticed that FSR3 FG was available as a setting.So I set everything and started rotating the camera to test Lossless Scaling.
At the very beginning of the game there is a pile of rubbish on the stairs and I started rotating the camera at 30fps. Then I enabled FSR3, and started rotating the camera, the framerate was smoother of course --though not incredibly smooth.
However I noticed that the pile of rubbish started to glitch so badly because of FSR3. The pile of rubbish started to send sparkles
, I couldn't believe my eyes.So I decided to enable Lossless Scaling (this is where my character punches the wall since I used the Control + Alt + S keyboard shortcut) and it worked PERFECTLY fine when rotating the camera.
I recorded a 1 minute video of the whole thing, so there is proof. (the sparkles start after the 28 seconds mark)
This was the first time I tried FSR3, I am disappoint.
Not only LS didn't show that glitch, but also the game run MUCH smoother at 90fps compared to FSR3 FG -base framerate 30fps on both cases-
Last edited:
GhostofWar
Regular
I was playing this the other day and dlss fg works pretty well, although I was going from a base of around 60 which would help. FSR3 in gray zone warefare is not great, I'll try lossless fg in that when I get a chance and I wouldn't be surprised if it is superior to the current fsr fg in that. Going to be an interesting one, hopefully get around to it tomorrow night and report back.
tried Ori and the Will of Wisps. Another improvement over base 60fps. When you jump, and Ori rolls himself up, the rotation of his body is a lot smoother.
Vampire Survivors -Windows Store-. When you set the game to 55 fps (1/3 of my monitor's 165Hz) or 60fps via Rivatuner and Vsync is enabled in the game, once you use LS the game starts running at 165fps but at 1/3 the speed, even if the things flying on the screen move veryyyy smoothly, it's so slow. If you disable Vsync and set the target framerate to 240fps, for instance, then it works like a charm.
Vampire Survivors runs flawlessly at 165fps on my PC, I was just testing. Aside from that, it is a game where framerate makes a HUGE difference. Playing VS at 30fps is horrible, at 60 is okay, but at 165fps, everything is much easier to see in between the chaos and thousands of things happening in the screen.
Halo Infinite. The difference is night and day. Running Halo Infinite at 55fps vs 165fps with Lossless Scaling feels so much more smooth... Another thing I noticed is that running Halo Infinite at 60fps and then using Lossless Scaling to increase the framerate to 165fps feels marginally less smooth than running the game at 55fps and enabling Lossless Scaling.
Food for thought since 55fps is exactly 1/3 of my display's framerate. I am thinking that instead of running the games at 60fps, running them at 55fps. That's been a win in games like Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite proves it too.
Something that I also noticed is that it kind glitches if you set the game to 41fps in game -like in other games-. However, if you limit the framerate to 41fps or whatever on Rivatuner it works like a charm.
41fps, 55fps..., are playable, but once you apply LS the change in smoothness is so stark, it's hard to play at those framerates, if you disable it you immediately notice little "jumps" in between frames.
Vampire Survivors -Windows Store-. When you set the game to 55 fps (1/3 of my monitor's 165Hz) or 60fps via Rivatuner and Vsync is enabled in the game, once you use LS the game starts running at 165fps but at 1/3 the speed, even if the things flying on the screen move veryyyy smoothly, it's so slow. If you disable Vsync and set the target framerate to 240fps, for instance, then it works like a charm.
Vampire Survivors runs flawlessly at 165fps on my PC, I was just testing. Aside from that, it is a game where framerate makes a HUGE difference. Playing VS at 30fps is horrible, at 60 is okay, but at 165fps, everything is much easier to see in between the chaos and thousands of things happening in the screen.
Halo Infinite. The difference is night and day. Running Halo Infinite at 55fps vs 165fps with Lossless Scaling feels so much more smooth... Another thing I noticed is that running Halo Infinite at 60fps and then using Lossless Scaling to increase the framerate to 165fps feels marginally less smooth than running the game at 55fps and enabling Lossless Scaling.
Food for thought since 55fps is exactly 1/3 of my display's framerate. I am thinking that instead of running the games at 60fps, running them at 55fps. That's been a win in games like Forza Horizon 5 and Halo Infinite proves it too.
Something that I also noticed is that it kind glitches if you set the game to 41fps in game -like in other games-. However, if you limit the framerate to 41fps or whatever on Rivatuner it works like a charm.
41fps, 55fps..., are playable, but once you apply LS the change in smoothness is so stark, it's hard to play at those framerates, if you disable it you immediately notice little "jumps" in between frames.
Last edited:
yeah, things like Rivatuner are godsend. Rivatuner is like "you have a console" app. It locks the framerate and it feels great.
this happened to me with Sonic All Stars Racing Transformed, whether I used Lossless Scaling or not. I thought the game locked the framerate to 60fps, but it doesn't. In my 165Hz monitor the game was running kinda odd.
My eyes could notice the "jumps" in between frames even if Steam told me the game was running at 165fps, or 120fps, sometimes just hitting 100fps. It felt like stuttering but not actual stutter.
Enabling Lossless Scaling did nothing for the framerate either, it felt the same.
So I decided to try the game with Rivatuner locking the framerate to 55fps, and the game ran great. Then I used Lossless Scaling and the framerate felt smoother, the game ran very well.
Additionally, you can try restarting Windows or closing and opening the app again. Sometimes it can flip in certain games or if you used things like the Game Capture app -xbox app- to record video and stuff when LS is on, the framerate starts to behave well.
On a different note, I am surprised to play like 90%+ of my games at 165fps, even if they aren't real. Using Rivatuner to lock games at 55fps, and enabling it on Windows startup is my new method of playing to apply LS. On very demanding games, or Path Tracing games, I am going to try to lock the game to 20fps -Path Tracing- or 30fps and tripling the framerate, but for most games, 55fps has been ideal.
locked Forza Horizon 5 to 20fps just for the fun. The framerate was so crappy... that you could see "artifacts" from the very low framerate. So I enabled lossless scaling, and bam, 60fps. It felt playable again.
You could only see something is amiss -artifacts- in things like the grass, since 20fps aren't enough to show detailed grass animations and transparencies, but this was another surprise, make a very crappy framerate feel playable almost like 60fps -responsiveness wasn't the same though-.
You could only see something is amiss -artifacts- in things like the grass, since 20fps aren't enough to show detailed grass animations and transparencies, but this was another surprise, make a very crappy framerate feel playable almost like 60fps -responsiveness wasn't the same though-.
Last edited:
been playing Still Wakes the Depp, a PC Gamepass game -really recommended-, and locked it to 30fps, 40fps (better, less artifacts)..., More than 30/40fps is overkill, the game looks very good but those graphics come at a cost, and again the game is very playable at 120fps, 90fps, and feels sooooo smooth. I never played so many games at high framerates and there is a difference, you get used to it and you find typical framerates a bit choppy.
This Lossless Scaling app is something else.
This Lossless Scaling app is something else.
GhostofWar
Regular
I played around with grayzone warfare with lossless scaling. This one got complicated. It has tsr/xess/fsr/dlss and nvidia fg and amd fg, they both only work with their own reconstruction method. Dlss with it's FG is easily the best. Fsr with it's framegen is the worst, I'm actually not even sure if fsr frame gen was working it didn't feel any different with it on or off but fsr struggles with all the foliage with lots of shimmering so this is where it got complicated.
So I tried lossless with tsr/xess/dlss and didn't bother with fsr, the old saying crap in crap out basically described my thought process here. Lossless with dlss was the best, xess was very close it just had some issues with corrigated fences at distance, dlss does aswell just not as bad. TSR was better than fsr but seemed over sharpened and got some breakup and I think this made lossless fg feel not smooth. I went in thinking lossless fg would fail bad on the optics, I tried some variable range scopes an acog and some red dot sights and there was a little break up in fast movement but it's the kind of movement your not doing while playing the game honestly, it's not battlefield your not doing 90 degree flicks while ads'ing. There was some kind of stutter or something while doing long fast pans on all 3 of those, I tried locking it at 45/60/70 and then uncapped and all had it. I didn't really notice it while playing but it was happening on the helicopter rides but your not really playing while on them.
Long story short, dlss fg is the way to go if you have it. If not I would use lossless fg with dlss or xess, in fact i'm going to recommend it to the guy I play with who has a 3070. He was using fsr+fg for a little while but dropped it because he wanted to go back to dlss. This game is still in early dev so it's possible they might improve fsr, probably still be in early access when amd release their ai enchanced fsr.
So I tried lossless with tsr/xess/dlss and didn't bother with fsr, the old saying crap in crap out basically described my thought process here. Lossless with dlss was the best, xess was very close it just had some issues with corrigated fences at distance, dlss does aswell just not as bad. TSR was better than fsr but seemed over sharpened and got some breakup and I think this made lossless fg feel not smooth. I went in thinking lossless fg would fail bad on the optics, I tried some variable range scopes an acog and some red dot sights and there was a little break up in fast movement but it's the kind of movement your not doing while playing the game honestly, it's not battlefield your not doing 90 degree flicks while ads'ing. There was some kind of stutter or something while doing long fast pans on all 3 of those, I tried locking it at 45/60/70 and then uncapped and all had it. I didn't really notice it while playing but it was happening on the helicopter rides but your not really playing while on them.
Long story short, dlss fg is the way to go if you have it. If not I would use lossless fg with dlss or xess, in fact i'm going to recommend it to the guy I play with who has a 3070. He was using fsr+fg for a little while but dropped it because he wanted to go back to dlss. This game is still in early dev so it's possible they might improve fsr, probably still be in early access when amd release their ai enchanced fsr.
thanks for the information, keep it coming. Alas I can't test DLSS nor DLSS FG, but no doubt nVidia are the best at what they do as of now, so I am sure theirs is the better solution.
That being said, I am very surprised that Lossless Scaling even works that well taking into account it is tripling the framerate adding two additional frames instead of 1, and it's not GPU model dependent.
It's been a solid application, at least on my rig, after testing many games and quite a few hours using it. It's not perfect but having this app changed the way I am playing my games, since now I use Rivatuner (locking games to 55fps) and Lossless Scaling both at Windows startup on my W11 partition for gaming.
With very specific games I have to decrease the locked framerate with Rivatuner to 41fps -1/4 of my 165Hz display- or 30fps, but other than that, 55fps + Lossless Scaling has allowed me to play MOST of my games to 165fps on my 165Hz display, and that alone is a win.
With the games I lock to 41fps or 30fps, whether it is 123fps or 90fps, the VRR of the monitor works great with it....
I had never managed to run so many games at 165fps before, and I am a sucker for low power usage and efficiency, so this has been a great app.
Last edited:
After Cyan's glowing review, I think I have to buy this and use it on my laptop. It's got a 1660ti and a 120hz screen, so I'm not really hitting the max refresh rate in any recent release, don't have DLSS, and don't have frame gen. This $7 app might keep this laptop relevant for a bit longer.
Similar threads
