Linux is a pile of shit

[rcf]

Linux is not an OS, it is just an OS kernel. You use Linux as a part to build an OS like Android or Fedora.

And that's why Linux is a mess for home users and gets ignored by most ISVs.
The Linux ecosystem is sort of a "Tower of Babel" that doesn't care about interoperability or backward compatibility.

It really sounds like you found a driver bug in that specific Linux version. Have you tried an updated install image (or a rawhide image) to see if your problem is fixed?

A few weeks ago Nouveau also crashed on Ubuntu because of my 1030 videocard. I had downloaded Ubuntu's minimal install image and selected no software metapackages during installation, so only the base system got installed, then I installed Xorg and a few other packages, and when typing "startx" Xorg would crash during startup because of Nouveau. Xorg would start only after Nvidia's proprietary driver got installed. I believe Nouveau doesn't properly recognize the 1030 videocard since it's one of the latest additions to the Pascal family.

 

[Cyan]

Sounds like most of your issues are running GUI applications and modern hardware. Linux itself is possibly the most stable server OS around. But Linux isn't something you can just throw a few days at, it's learned over years of playing around with it in different ways. I personally wouldn't use anything else for my web servers.

yes, Linux shines on servers, nothing comes closer. Other than that, it's just crap, imho. There are no blue screens, but if something goes wrong, the computer directly turns off for no apparent reason and you go like....WTF?

I think Linux is a good OS kernel for computer science students and geeks, or people who want to be cool being "different" and going against the masses perception, but it has no support save for paid distros, and something which is working now isn't guaranteed to work later.

 

[tuna]

The Linux ecosystem is sort of a "Tower of Babel" that doesn't care about interoperability or backward compatibility.

Linus has always made clear that backwards compatibility is the number one prio for Linux and if there are unintended breaks he will revert those changes.

 

[tuna]

A few weeks ago Nouveau also crashed on Ubuntu because of my 1030 videocard. I had downloaded Ubuntu's minimal install image and selected no software metapackages during installation, so only the base system got installed, then I installed Xorg and a few other packages, and when typing "startx" Xorg would crash during startup because of Nouveau. Xorg would start only after Nvidia's proprietary driver got installed. I believe Nouveau doesn't properly recognize the 1030 videocard since it's one of the latest additions to the Pascal family.

Have you tried Linux 4.15? It might work there.

 

[tuna]

.... but it has no support save for paid distros, and something which is working now isn't guaranteed to work later.

Where do you get free support for other OS? And where are MS guarantees that something that is working now will work on Windows in 10 years?

 

[Rikimaru]

A lot of hardware have shit firmware and drivers which only tested on Windows. Especially laptops.

 

[rcf]

Linus has always made clear that backwards compatibility is the number one prio for Linux and if there are unintended breaks he will revert those changes.

Linus has also said this:

"...we make binaries for Windows and OSX, we basically don't make binaries for Linux. Why? Because making binaries for Linux desktop applications is a major fucking pain in the ass. You don’t make binaries for Linux, you make binaries for Fedora 19, Fedora 20, maybe even RHEL5 from 10 years ago. You make binaries for Debian Stable…well actually no, you don't make binaries for Debian Stable because Debian Stable has libraries that are so old that anything built in the last century doesn’t work."

Watch from 5:58s to 11:30s.

And what he said above also applies to device drivers. You can't create and distribute Linux drivers for your equipment outside the kernel tree (even in source form) and then forget about them, as they'll soon break even after kernel updates that happen in the same version of a given distro.

 

[Mize]

I'm quite partial to linux when it fits the task at hand. I'm perfectly comfortable with it as a desktop OS too, the key is getting it dialed in. At that point it is rock solid. Drivers are definitely an issue so it can be wonky about things like sleep/wake. HiDPI is largely not an issue at the OS level, but many apps haven't been updated. Still it's simple to scale the HMI to defeat that issue. It's particularly useful in environments where people want to be nosy. I had an employer years ago that wanted to scan everyone's computer for illegal software etc. so it was good fun to give them a linux machine and watch them try all their Windows scan tools: insert 3.5" floppy and stare at an unchanging screen. Anyway, screwdrivers don't make great hammers and linux isn't right for every task or every user. I have two linux machines, 2 macos and 3 W10 machines so I'm OS-agnostic.

 

[tuna]

Linus has also said this:

"...we make binaries for Windows and OSX, we basically don't make binaries for Linux. Why? Because making binaries for Linux desktop applications is a major fucking pain in the ass. You don’t make binaries for Linux, you make binaries for Fedora 19, Fedora 20, maybe even RHEL5 from 10 years ago. You make binaries for Debian Stable…well actually no, you don't make binaries for Debian Stable because Debian Stable has libraries that are so old that anything built in the last century doesn’t work."

And now you have flatpaks for GUI applications, so it is not really a problem anymore.

 

[tuna]

And what he said above also applies to device drivers. You can't create and distribute Linux drivers for your equipment outside the kernel tree (even in source form) and then forget about them, as they'll soon break even after kernel updates that happen in the same version of a given distro.

Yes, Linux has never had a stable driver API/ABI. Get the driver into Linus version and it will work forever (or as long as people are willing to test).

Btw, can you install 3dfx drivers on Windows 10?

 

[rcf]

And now you have flatpaks for GUI applications, so it is not really a problem anymore.

Let's wait for version 1.0 and widespread adoption by ISVs.

Btw, can you install 3dfx drivers on Windows 10?

To expect drivers to remain compatible for 20 years, from Win9x to Win10, is quite different from expecting them to remain compatible for a few months, from kernel 4.x.y to 4.x.z.
Btw, you can install Win7 drivers on Win8/8.1 and some of them on Win10 (I'm doing it right now with my old printer).

 

[Florin]

Shouldn't this be in RPSC?
Because topic title and religious factor.

 

[tuna]

To expect drivers to remain compatible for 20 years, from Win9x to Win10, is quite different from expecting them to remain compatible for a few months, from kernel 4.x.y to 4.x.z.

AFAIK those Linux versions should always have a stable driver ABI.

 

[Malo]

Shouldn't this be in RPSC?
Because topic title and religious factor.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Another day and another situation where linux is being the utter piece of shit it is.

So, iptables. The linux crowd appears to think this hunk of shit qualifies as a firewall. Just like the rest of the OS its a piece of dysfunctional overly complicated garbage that just doesn't work.

Because there is no application control and linshit just connects to the internet whenever the fuck it pleases I though lets make some rules to only allow the user running the software I need access to the internet. I'm used to working with firewalls on the cli so how hard can it be?

Very hard because of the shitness of this OS.

Get this; DROP rules work fine. Now I make a rule that allows all traffic to any port and any destination for my user. Pretty basic and works on every firewall I've ever used. Not on linux. No no no. So the user I allowed access, it can ping just fine. But all other traffic appears to be blocked. I say appears to because due to the fucktarded way this OS is designed its damn near impossible to get it to log anything in a useful manner. I even copied the command from the shitbuntu website but that does fuck all.

How the fuck you manage to make a "firewall" the shits itself on even the most basic of basic rules is beyond me. Though I'm sure it'll turn out linshit has some moronic retarded way of handling network traffic in which for whatever reason traffic isn't handled by the user you are logged in with. Not that you'll ever be able to figure that out by yourself because fuck logic, right linux?

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Fucking amazing. I'd really like to meet one of the fuckheads that did the programming on this.

Linux logic galore.

Root any all all -> ping works, dns does not
Root any all all + allowing ALL tcp/udp 53 traffic -> ping and DNS work for root user

This is already fucking stupid because root is supposed to be allowed everywhere already so why require the extra rules?

But it gets better.
Remove Root any all all + allowing ALL and replace root with your local user. Ping works but DNS does not. What the flying fuck?

You MUST have a root user on the shitty ipshittables list for anything to work.

Retarded much? Yep but that is linux for you.

 

[Malo]

Basically every residential and commercial firewall box in existence is based on iptables. Of course with you just starting to learn linux, your opinion on the matter means it's utter garbage.

 

[tuna]

Also, if you are having problems with the raw iptables interfaces, maybe you should try firewalld? That is supposed to be more newbie friendly.

Also, iptables is a service and not part of Linux.

 

[Mize]

Use the free version of Untangle.

 

[Gubbi]

You MUST have a root user on the shitty ipshittables list for anything to work.

Network packets have no concept of Linux user definitions, so of course the network interface has to have the rules defined as root.

I'd recommend Shorewall for firewall duties.

Cheers