Linux is a pile of shit

[tongue_of_colicab]

So I'm forced to work with this craptastic OS for a project I'm working on but fuck me this is the shittiest piece of software I've ever seen.

Basically it just doesn't work. Its OK in a VM but on real hardware its utter shit because the geniuses working on this crap after decades still haven't figured out that half decent hardware support MIGHT be nice to have.

I've installed Ubuntu on a 7th gen Intel NUC and:
- Crashes every 5 minutes (hard reset needed)
- Produces as shitload of OS related errors at boot, none of which it can do error reporting on because Linux
- Everything needs about 100th times the effort it should if the devs had half a brain. Try setting up VNC access.
- Basic functionality is missing. God I love looking for PIDs to kill a crap piece of software hanging (and on Linux everything hangs). Or overly complicated user/group management that only can be done in a total mongoloid way from CLI because no gui app (yes there are some shitty ones that don't work).
- Try making something run on boot.

I've already spent half a week getting this shit to work in a stable manner and its just impossible. From its core its designed to be as unusable as possible.

Yes if you have unlimited free time to dick around with poorly documented cli commands and shit apps not updated in half a decade (ohh why don't you just update it yourself, the code is opensource trololol) then maybe you get something in a working state but other than that its all different levels of shit. I honestly cannot name one redeeming factor Linux has.

 

[eloic]

I like this. Blunt. To the point.

Now we'll just wait for the nerdies to debunk all of your points.

 

[itsmydamnation]

This sounds more like a hardware selection issue, skull canyon is terrible on everything, you cant even install ESXI on it without manually editing the ESXI installer. I have RHEL running on a skull canyon NUC and then using KVM because that was easier then getting ESXi working.

also it just sounds like you dont know how to troubleshoot on linux because it has very good logging and debuging......

also why VNC, you only need sshd, that gives SSH and SCP, sounds like your doing it* wrong.

it = linux follows the POSIX style of system interaction, lumping big GUI's on top of it and then jamming systemD down everyones throats hasn't really aligned to that ( the flavors that choose to do it).

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

I said a 7th gen nuc (i3), not a skull canyon. Yes I'm shit a troubleshooting Linux but the fuck it produces errors even after just booting, without even having done a thing. When was the last time Windows wouldn't run a browser without shitting itself every 5 minutes?

And why VNC? Because I don't want to dick around with that retarded cli. It just isn't convenient or fast to have to do everything through a cli. I need to monitor logs, edit configs etc. for the software I need to run. That just doesn't work on a cli. Can't have stuff open at the same time (yes I can open a dozen of command prompts but that kinda proves my point).

 

[itsmydamnation]

I said a 7th gen nuc (i3), not a skull canyon. Yes I'm shit a troubleshooting Linux but the fuck it produces errors even after just booting, without even having done a thing. When was the last time Windows wouldn't run a browser without shitting itself every 5 minutes?

And why VNC? Because I don't want to dick around with that retarded cli. It just isn't convenient or fast to have to do everything through a cli. I need to monitor logs, edit configs etc. for the software I need to run. That just doesn't work on a cli. Can't have stuff open at the same time (yes I can open a dozen of command prompts but that kinda proves my point).

Sry getting my generations mixed up, but being even newer probably is going to be more problematic.

But i just want to point something out to you,

The biggest internet core routes (CRS's ASR-9K M series) all run on linux
The biggest data centre switches (nexus, arista) all run on linux
All the biggest firewalls, load balancers and other network services all run on linux
The majority of the web stack you use every day runs on linux
the biggest/all super computers run linux
even power is transitioning to linux

They all seem to have no problems at all, they also all only use CLI/API.

Also there is this magic thing in linux called screen, you think the admins of the biggest systems in the world pushing the most data in the world open up 100's of ssh sessions to a host.... nope...........

If you find GUI is faster then CLI chances are you dont know how to CLI, even before power shell CLI in windows is faster when you know what your doing (except for it terrible UNC consistancy) .

Also im pretty sure the last time windows shat itself to not being able to boot was last week with the spectre patches

 

[Gubbi]

My new motorbike is complete crap. I keep falling over on it because it only has two wheels !!!!

Even my old car didn't flip on its side every five minutes.

Cheers

 

[itsmydamnation]

My new motorbike is complete crap. I keep falling over on it because it only has two wheels !!!!

Even my old car didn't flip on its side every five minutes.

Cheers

need to buy yourself some training wheels.....

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

They all seem to have no problems at all, they also all only use CLI/API.

And how many admins with how many years of experience are working on those systems.

As I said if you got enough time to dick around with it I'm sure it works. Even a turd can be made to look beautiful.

I'm sure I'm an idiot but that doesn't change the fact Linux is crapping out after installation on a normal piece of hardware, that simple things require a lot more effort etc.

I'm a user, I need to run one piece of not that special software. It shouldn't have to spend more time on getting the damn OS to work than I did on learning the software package I'm using.

 

[orangpelupa]

I also have similar experience with Linux.

Tried various flavors, all of them are a hassle.

Elementary OS actually have a much easier to use and pleasing interface but horrendous when you want to dive into settings.

All of them also have crappy hardware compatibility. The unable to left click bug also has been there since 2006 from what I googled. No solution. The workaround do works tho.

All of them also have super crappy HIDPI support.

The only thing I need Linux is for changing my Mac address. So maybe installing Linux is already way overkull

 

[itsmydamnation]

Let me be more direct, maybe you picked the wrong sets of tools for the job, change OS, change hardware or fix the damn problem. My first google result to "nuc linux crashing"

https://www.reddit.com/r/path%3D%252Fr%252Fintelnuc%252Fcomments%252F4cgujc%252F

a little bit more digging has shown that things got significantly better with newer BIOS updates, are you up to date?

And how many admins with how many years of experience are working on those systems.

As I said if you got enough time to dick around with it I'm sure it works. Even a turd can be made to look beautiful.

See this is the point you 100% miss, its not a turd in any way shape or form.
Let me give you a real world example. I know a sinlge VFX linux admin who's setup is:

Machine gets a stateless OS deploy by pxe on boot
All versions of all software (for like the last decade) are stateless and are located on NFS shares
Every VFX job they have done has its setup described in a config file
When server finishes boot it looks in the "job queue" for a job
The job describes what VFX job it is apart of so the config file gets read and all setup details are know
The OS then mounts the specific path to the specific application versions as required and gets to work on the job, once job is finish it unmounts the paths and it goes back to the job queue get the next job.

The end result is his servers spend about 6-10 minutes booting (ram checks take a long time) and then run 100% for the next 3 to 5 years and run any job for any client at any time.

Try do that on windows, you cant come close, DLL dependence nightmares , middleware dependence nightmares, OS behavior change nightmares, even patching downtime. The funny thing is that kind of setup isn't even that hard to do on linux, largely thax to the POSIX ideology, small specific applications doing small specific tasks, chain them together, failing loud and failing hard.

I'm sure I'm an idiot but that doesn't change the fact Linux is crapping out after installation on a normal piece of hardware, that simple things require a lot more effort etc.

I've had just as much trouble with drivers on windows as i have linux, ASIO on windows is a pain in the arse for example. Now chances are it is screaming at you what the problem is, have you tried dmesg /looked at boot log? looked at var/log/message? have you tried BIOS updates like mentioned above?

I'm a user, I need to run one piece of not that special software. It shouldn't have to spend more time on getting the damn OS to work than I did on learning the software package I'm using.

Thats a load of crap. If i took all your knowledge of how win O/S operates, gave you a O/S, various drivers and application install CD and said good luck get to it, how do you think that one will go?

 

[BRiT]

This is one of the funniest threads I have seen since Alex Jones Infowars. Thanks for the non-intentional comedy.

 

[Grall]

It's a fact that Linux is not a very good OS for untrained users. And it's a fact that Linux can be a (very) good OS for trained professionals.

There's no dichotomy here.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Let me be more direct, maybe you picked the wrong sets of tools for the job, change OS, change hardware or fix the damn problem. My first google result to "nuc linux crashing"

https://www.reddit.com/r/path%3D%252Fr%252Fintelnuc%252Fcomments%252F4cgujc%252F

a little bit more digging has shown that things got significantly better with newer BIOS updates, are you up to date?


See this is the point you 100% miss, its not a turd in any way shape or form.
Let me give you a real world example. I know a sinlge VFX linux admin who's setup is:

Machine gets a stateless OS deploy by pxe on boot
All versions of all software (for like the last decade) are stateless and are located on NFS shares
Every VFX job they have done has its setup described in a config file
When server finishes boot it looks in the "job queue" for a job
The job describes what VFX job it is apart of so the config file gets read and all setup details are know
The OS then mounts the specific path to the specific application versions as required and gets to work on the job, once job is finish it unmounts the paths and it goes back to the job queue get the next job.

The end result is his servers spend about 6-10 minutes booting (ram checks take a long time) and then run 100% for the next 3 to 5 years and run any job for any client at any time.

Try do that on windows, you cant come close, DLL dependence nightmares , middleware dependence nightmares, OS behavior change nightmares, even patching downtime. The funny thing is that kind of setup isn't even that hard to do on linux, largely thax to the POSIX ideology, small specific applications doing small specific tasks, chain them together, failing loud and failing hard.


I've had just as much trouble with drivers on windows as i have linux, ASIO on windows is a pain in the arse for example. Now chances are it is screaming at you what the problem is, have you tried dmesg /looked at boot log? looked at var/log/message? have you tried BIOS updates like mentioned above?


Thats a load of crap. If i took all your knowledge of how win O/S operates, gave you a O/S, various drivers and application install CD and said good luck get to it, how do you think that one will go?

Again, how much time did your vfx admin spend on that? I'm sure it wasn't an afternoons work with three weeks Linux experience.

All in asking is for an OS that works. In 2018 that isn't too much to ask for I think. Besides, your VFX admin is he going to buy two generations old hardware because linux can't be arsed to offer hardware compatibility with one of the biggest chip builders in the world?

Just to show example of Linux stupidity:
Groups command shows groups, but the same logic doenst apply to members or users, you got to install a different package for that...

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

This is one of the funniest threads I have seen since Alex Jones Infowars. Thanks for the non-intentional comedy.

There is no fun in being obvious

 

[Deleted member 13524]

For me, best thing about Linux is it runs on 40€ single board computers and it's free.


For me, the worst thing about Linux is once you run into a problem or change something away from default you're sentenced to lose hours upon hours on having to learn everything about the thing below the thing below the thing below that thing you need to change.
It just shouldn't have to be like that. Not if you're trying to increase adoption rate. It feels as if the people working on debian, ubuntu, etc. are still more interested in maintaining the status quo of their "elite users" than they are about creating a real alternative to Windows.

 

[Malo]

Sounds like most of your issues are running GUI applications and modern hardware. Linux itself is possibly the most stable server OS around. But Linux isn't something you can just throw a few days at, it's learned over years of playing around with it in different ways. I personally wouldn't use anything else for my web servers.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Sounds like most of your issues are running GUI applications and modern hardware. Linux itself is possibly the most stable server OS around. But Linux isn't something you can just throw a few days at, it's learned over years of playing around with it in different ways. I personally wouldn't use anything else for my web servers.

I think that was party of Tongue_of_colicab's point. Linux is probably good if you have a LOT of experience with it and can spend a LOT of time with it and already know where to go to troubleshoot issues. If you lack any of those, then Linux becomes a virtual nightmare to work with.

I've worked with BeOS (it was a charming OS), OS/2 (really like OS/2), Windows 1.x (not pleasant) though Modern windows, MacOS (don't like it, but that's more preference than anything, it's certainly worlds better than versions 9.0 and earlier), and various other OSes. None of those required extensive knowledge of the OS or how to troubleshoot the OS to get them up and running in general. There are of course always exceptions.

I have to say I absolutely hate working with Linux. Not because I think it sucks, but just due to lack of hardware support, and if something doesn't go as expected, I can expect to spend hours or days just trying to get a program package to work correctly. Here it's more the exception than the rule that something "just works" unless it's something extremely simple. Like the USB stick with Linux and drive clone software on it. Although even then it took a few hours of troubleshooting and research on the internet to get it to work correctly with my hardware. My god that was frustrating as hell. And the only reason I ended up having to do that was because WHS 2011 no longer supports modern MB BIOSes combined with Windows 10. Bleh.

I'd rather work with old DOS with autoexec.bat and config.sys resolving IRQ and DMI conflicts and trying to get everything I need loaded into memory to get a program to work and hardware to play nicely together than muck around with Linux.

Regards,
SB

 

[Deleted member 13524]

But Linux isn't something you can just throw a few days at, it's learned over years of playing around with it in different ways.

It's clearly not. We all agree with that.

The question here is why not?
If we are to discuss graphical user interfaces, the last 10 years were the era of the UX evolution.
iOS appeared and evolved, Android appeared and evolved, Windows evolved, MacOS evolved. Everything has been made easier to do for everyone, to increase adoption by people of all ages and cultural/social backgrounds - the next billion as they called it back in 2010. And how did the consumer-oriented Linux distros evolve in the meantime?

 

[orangpelupa]

Elementary OS do have easy to understand UI. Much easier than any other distros I've tried.

But then when you began to go into settings, installing packages from outside of elementary os app store, or installing drivers, the difficulty spike a ton.

So many stuff also unavailable from the GUI control panel.

Although to be fair, windows 10 control panel is also a total mess. One part available from classic panel, one another from metro panel, and a few others locked behind command prompt despite its partially available thru metro panel and classic panel (I'm looking at you, Hotspot/ICS).

 

[Anarchist4000]

They all seem to have no problems at all, they also all only use CLI/API.

My question would be are any package managers being used? That can simplify the experience immensely, but custom alises etc for an experienced user definitely help.

I'm sure I'm an idiot but that doesn't change the fact Linux is crapping out after installation on a normal piece of hardware, that simple things require a lot more effort etc.

Might just be the hardware, but any system I've plugged my drive into has booted just fine. All hardware just working immediately, with the possible exception of some graphics hardware. If using the latest Radeon stack it's rather effortless. Only hardware issues I've had were forgetting to reboot after updating the kernel. Then certain modules wouldn't load if needed.