If it's real, it's probably just so they can lower the price to compete. Not only do you save in costs of a cheaper less capable less complex BR drive, but you also don't need the EE+GS@90nm chip in there which uses up PCB space generating heat and require a fan heatsink too. I think this could be real only because DL BD-ROM disc manufacturing has still yet to be decided. You cannot start manufacturing robust DL BD-ROM capable drives when you don't even know how the discs will be manufactured. This is significant because they need to start manufacturing pretty soon for PS3's launch. They might release a firmware update later on for the Japanese drives when they figure out how the DL BRDs will be made. Since the first year BR movies will be on SL discs it won't really affect PS3's movie playback capability much. I've also heard that they want to stick with SL BD for awhile since it's cheaper and easier to make than DL BD. Games will only use SL anyway.
Leaked PS3 info!
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Jon Brittan
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cambridge, UK
Posts: 73
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There are only two things that would make me even begin to give this information any credit whatsoever:
1. It's posted by london-boy and he has traditionally had (fair and well tempered) leanings towards the Sony camp coupled with a well balanced and well measured approach to his postings in the forum. I don't think though that he would post anything particularly negative about a Sony console unless he was at least reasonably confident of the source (to be honest I think the same would apply to non-Sony material also).
Yeah, he is more for SOny, I barely post , but i do come here everyday. PS2 is a DVD as well, why sell it. I will keep mine.
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cambridge, UK
Posts: 73
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are only two things that would make me even begin to give this information any credit whatsoever:
1. It's posted by london-boy and he has traditionally had (fair and well tempered) leanings towards the Sony camp coupled with a well balanced and well measured approach to his postings in the forum. I don't think though that he would post anything particularly negative about a Sony console unless he was at least reasonably confident of the source (to be honest I think the same would apply to non-Sony material also).
Yeah, he is more for SOny, I barely post , but i do come here everyday. PS2 is a DVD as well, why sell it. I will keep mine.
Jon Brittan said:
THANKS!!
Certainly an interesting theory, and a plausible one at that. however I can't see sony wanting to spend more money on the Blue ray drives when going on sale in the united states. I could see the reasoning that they would want to use the same drive everywhere.
Btw, why would a dual layer blue ray drive support DVD when a single layer BR drive would not? Does anyone have any ideas why or how that could be?
Btw, why would a dual layer blue ray drive support DVD when a single layer BR drive would not? Does anyone have any ideas why or how that could be?
Yeah, it isn't the single layerness that shocked me in that "rumour", but that they'd given up on the backwards compatibility 100%.
Also if it didn't read DVD's, all the games would have to be produced on BR discs.
Not all games need BR disc space, especially launch games, so making them on DVD's would also be cheaper on developers.
Also if it didn't read DVD's, all the games would have to be produced on BR discs.
Not all games need BR disc space, especially launch games, so making them on DVD's would also be cheaper on developers.
rabidrabbit said:
Forcing all games on SL BD nets you economies of scale in BD production which gets the cost of manufacturing the discs down which also benefits movie disc manufacturing which helps BD better compete in costs with HD DVD.
They have no relation to one another. It's simply easier and cheaper to manufacture a BR only drive for a fast to market situation. You can also make it more robust. The DL aspect has no relation to this. It's just that the DL BD-ROM disc manufacturing has not be decided upon yet so there's almost no way to manufacture a DL drive today and guarantee it will work with future DL BD.
yes I can see that occuring, but what does the difference between single and dual layer mean with regards to DVD compatability?
Say the rest of the world gets a full blown dual layer supporting BR drive. Does this mean DVD playback can be included? what's stopping it from being included with a single layer drive? that's the only questions I'm curious about...
Say the rest of the world gets a full blown dual layer supporting BR drive. Does this mean DVD playback can be included? what's stopping it from being included with a single layer drive? that's the only questions I'm curious about...
For the first point I don't think anyone is expecting EE+GS (PS2 on a chip) to be present. Best guesses so far for BC seem to be EE emulation on Cell and maybe some sort of BC support on the RSX. I don't there's any chip-savings to be made.PC-Engine said:
On the second point, why does a DL-BRD capable of reading DVDs need knowledge of disc manufacturing? The DVDs are manufactured the same way existing PS2 DVDs are, and you pop them into your DL BRD drive and it switches to the IR laser to read them. I don't think dual-format DVD/BRDs is an issue here as that has nothing to do wtih BC (unless Sony want to sell dual format GAMES, which you play on your PS2 and when you upgrade to PS3, play them same game improved
)It has no relationship whatsoever. SONY is just killing two birds with one stone assuming this info is true. The information is vague anyway. Not having DVD and CD capability and whether the drive can read DL BD are two totally different things. The DL compatibility aspect however will depend on what kind of DL disc manufacturing is chosen which is still up in the air.
overclocked
Veteran
london-boy said:AHAHAHAH It will be on these boards as "Look, this guy had sex with an EA employee and got this info off him!!"
Oh god i'll be the videogame whore on cyberspace for eternity!!!
Hmm thinking of how to set you up on a uhmmm "date" with KK..
PC-Engine said:
Actually it might be because the laser needs to change the focal length when its switching layers. If the BD-ROM they put in the PS3 can only do single layer then it also can't read DVD/CDs because in Blu-Ray discs the data layers are closer to the laser then DVDs/CDs (0.3mm vs. 0.6mm IIRC). A Blu-Ray drive without this ability would would probaly be a fair bit cheaper to produce because the laser assembly would cost less (fixed focal length), there's no need for any DVD/CD specific circuitry, and the jitter can be worse then a dual layer BD-ROM.
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Jon Brittan
Newcomer
overclocked said:
That's easy, just drop KK a line and all you need to say is "Hey, Ken, I'd like you to go on a date with a bloke. Listen, all you need to do is sleep with him and he'll spread whatever news you want him to and the even better thing is... people will seem to be prepared to believe him no matter how stupid it sounds, I mean look at this [cue cut and pasting of this thread]"
Why would anybody buy a system that doesn't read DVDs or CDs, and doesn't play previous-gen Playstation games, when they can wait a few months and pay less for a full featured system?
It's a double-edged sword... Let's cripple the system's features and keep the price reasonable so we can release early, while giving people a reason to postpone their purchase.
I can't believe people are giving these rumours any consideration at all. The entire thing smacks of suicide business practises, and it serves absolutely no purpose!
Delay the thing if neccessary, but don't halve the disc capacity and remove backwards compatibility just so the Japanese, in a region you'll dominate regardless, can play the thing a few months early.
No no no.
It's a double-edged sword... Let's cripple the system's features and keep the price reasonable so we can release early, while giving people a reason to postpone their purchase.
I can't believe people are giving these rumours any consideration at all. The entire thing smacks of suicide business practises, and it serves absolutely no purpose!
Delay the thing if neccessary, but don't halve the disc capacity and remove backwards compatibility just so the Japanese, in a region you'll dominate regardless, can play the thing a few months early.
No no no.
robofunk said:
It could be that too, but i'm leaning more towards an unfinished DL BD-ROM manufacturing compatibility issue because if you wanted to simply save costs you can still have a DL BD-ROM drive and still have no DVD/CD playback. The cost savings going from a DL BD-ROM capable drive to a SL only capable one isn't that much.
Jon Brittan
Newcomer
Gholbine said:
Or could have bought one (albeit from a different manufacturer) months and months earlier?
As I said, one of the reasons I would give this rumour any credence is the fact that they do have to contend with the fact that X360 will have been available for a long enough period by that point anyway. Maybe they feel that, despite their strong branding, they are pushing the limits for how long they can make people wait for a next-gen console anyway (assuming they are looking at people to buy PS3 instead of X360) and that any announcement of a further delay (assuming there is no way for them to hit their target spec at price-point) may be just what is needed to push away a number of those customers.
All speculation, but then that's what this thread is about really.
Agreed with the second sentence, but I've already explained the reasons I would give any of this information thought-time.
Again, agreed, providing none of the other caveats I have already mentioned come into play.
pipo said:
There's a few things happening (reposted from PSiNext):
GSPx (oct 24-27)
http://www.gspx.com/GSPX/2005/2005-index.php
Austin Game conference (oct 27-28)
http://www.gameconference.com/conference/glance.html
Tokyo International Digital Conference (oct 22-30)
http://nb.nikkeibp.co.jp/digital2005/program/
Isn't it 'better practice' to suggest a Spring launch, but not give a definite, and keep postponing 'just a little bit longer' so would be buyers saving onto their money KEEP saving onto their money expecting PS3 to be released 'any day now'? Launching early with a crippled system will surely just hurt image and annoy customers expecting the promised BC, whereas stringing them along is just annoying but can be excused more easily. 'We're taking longer to make a better machine'.Jon Brittan said:
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