If NV30's AA + AF are not significantly better than what previous NV chips offered, I will be sorely disappointed. I find this "rumor" hard to believe (but, then again, we are talking about the company that couldn't add 4x RGMS for the GF3 Ti or GF4, so. . . .).
Latest NV30 Info
- Thread starter alexsok
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Megadrive1988
Veteran
makes me wonder how many samples of FSAA the NV30 will support.
If its anything less than 8x I will be very disappointed.
speaking of FSAA, with SGI's highend visualization systems such as the old early 90s Reality Engine, RE2, and the newer mid-late 90s Infinite Reality, weren't they all capable of 8x8 samples of anti-aliasing?
Actually I think they did that much AA as standard, without any significant performance drop. Using dedicated ASICs to do AA, not using up your fillrate. And wouldn't SGI's 8x8 be equivalent to "64x" FSAA?
Current Nvidia and ATI GPUs are limited to 4x and 6x respectively, are they not?
Unless there's something I am not understanding here, Nvidia and ATI have a LONG way to go, to catch up with the best real-time FSAA let alone attempt to rival movie quality prerendered CG which uses copious amounts of AA.
If its anything less than 8x I will be very disappointed.
speaking of FSAA, with SGI's highend visualization systems such as the old early 90s Reality Engine, RE2, and the newer mid-late 90s Infinite Reality, weren't they all capable of 8x8 samples of anti-aliasing?
Actually I think they did that much AA as standard, without any significant performance drop. Using dedicated ASICs to do AA, not using up your fillrate. And wouldn't SGI's 8x8 be equivalent to "64x" FSAA?
Current Nvidia and ATI GPUs are limited to 4x and 6x respectively, are they not?
Unless there's something I am not understanding here, Nvidia and ATI have a LONG way to go, to catch up with the best real-time FSAA let alone attempt to rival movie quality prerendered CG which uses copious amounts of AA.
If it doesn't offer better AA, I'd be disappointed too. Regarding AF however, it doesn't have to be much better qualitywise (I'd like to see a 16x mode), but speedwise. Being "the same algorithm" says nothing about the speed, if this chip has fillrate to burn or more powerful TMUs, aniso will be much less of a performance hit.
John Reynolds said:
It's just hard for me to think of any better aniso or aa implementations than what ATI have done already with the R9700.
Say NV30's AA+AF are the same (or better) quality than R9700, with the same (or smaller) perfomance hit.
Would that satisfy you m8?
I mean, after all, R9700 doesn't offer any new alghoritms in regards to AA & Aniso as well (just improvements to the existing ones), so I wouldn't expect much from NV30 here as well...
The color compression Wavey talked about earlier looks promising, but it woulnd't help much in none aa situations and it's value is greatly reduced there, while in aa situations, R9700 has this area covered already.
Megadrive1988
Veteran
One can probably figure out roughly what NV35 specs will be, at least the basics.
*.13u
*8 pipes
*2 TMUs/pipe
*256 bit memory bus
*additional vertex shader pipelines (maybe 6 instead of 3)
*same VS/PS version as NV30
*500-550 Mhz core
*256 MB DDR-II @ 1200-1400 Mhz (600-700Mhz)
pretty similar change as seen from NV20(GF3) to NV25(GF4ti)
huge increase in vertex rate, huge increase in raw bandwidth this
time though
- moderate increase in pixel/texel fillrate. Perhaps even further
image quality features and LMAv4.
*.13u
*8 pipes
*2 TMUs/pipe
*256 bit memory bus
*additional vertex shader pipelines (maybe 6 instead of 3)
*same VS/PS version as NV30
*500-550 Mhz core
*256 MB DDR-II @ 1200-1400 Mhz (600-700Mhz)
pretty similar change as seen from NV20(GF3) to NV25(GF4ti)
huge increase in vertex rate, huge increase in raw bandwidth this
time though
- moderate increase in pixel/texel fillrate. Perhaps even further
image quality features and LMAv4.
alexsok said:
While I was hoping for stochastic sampling support, I'd be satisfied if NV30 can match the 9700's quality, both visually and in performance.
Well, for a "source" there is nothing new in this information that hasn't been posted in rumors dating back for a long time from xbit, inquirer, etc.
I'd be more impressed by this "source" if he posted some info that was "surprising" and that hasn't appeared *anywhere* on the web, but nonetheless turns out to be true.
We know that NVidia has a PDF/PowerPoint ready loaded with oodles of new marketing terms(tm) about each and every feature of the new NV30 pipeline that will be flooded onto the web on Nov 18-22nd. Do you really think their PDF is going to just say "NV30 - same features as GF4" Why can't your source produce ANY info, not even a single datapoint from the upcoming marketing collateral You know, like even the name of NVidia's new pixel pipeline (it won't be called NSR anymore)
NVidia isn't going to be hyping "128-bit pipeline" so surely there must be something new and interesting this "source" can provide.
I think there are too many "wannabees" out there. You know, my cousin's brother's sister's husband works at Dell who is ordering new cards from ASUS, where an engineer supposedly told us X about an NV30 that they don't have yet, etc etc
I'd be more impressed by this "source" if he posted some info that was "surprising" and that hasn't appeared *anywhere* on the web, but nonetheless turns out to be true.
We know that NVidia has a PDF/PowerPoint ready loaded with oodles of new marketing terms(tm) about each and every feature of the new NV30 pipeline that will be flooded onto the web on Nov 18-22nd. Do you really think their PDF is going to just say "NV30 - same features as GF4" Why can't your source produce ANY info, not even a single datapoint from the upcoming marketing collateral You know, like even the name of NVidia's new pixel pipeline (it won't be called NSR anymore)
NVidia isn't going to be hyping "128-bit pipeline" so surely there must be something new and interesting this "source" can provide.
I think there are too many "wannabees" out there. You know, my cousin's brother's sister's husband works at Dell who is ordering new cards from ASUS, where an engineer supposedly told us X about an NV30 that they don't have yet, etc etc
Prometheus
Newcomer
I myself want better fsaa than radeon9700.Why should I be satisfied with something that has already been done?I'm not interented in a radeon9700 clone.
DegustatoR
Legend
DemoCoder
As for all this "information"... Well, it was published on public forum (forum.ixbt.com, it's russian hardware site/forum) as some sort of compilation of data about nv30, that already appeared on the Web here and there. It was not my intention to post something "surprising", I'd better leave that to Inquirer
P.S. Sorry for my English, it's a bit rusty...
I am the "source", glad to meet you
As for all this "information"... Well, it was published on public forum (forum.ixbt.com, it's russian hardware site/forum) as some sort of compilation of data about nv30, that already appeared on the Web here and there. It was not my intention to post something "surprising", I'd better leave that to Inquirer
Maybe 'cause this "source" doesn't want this?
You're absolutely right on that. But it wasn't my intention to became "wannabee" or disclose any NDAed information, not because i am under NDA, but because my friends are and i don't want to get them in trouble w/NV.
P.S. Sorry for my English, it's a bit rusty...
Now how would a Russian site get inside information from a California based company?? Sounds like some good old Russian spying that was very effective in the Cold War. The NV 30 card >$400 and pretty much a next year card! By then Radeon 9700 pro will be in the mid $250 range (you can get a retail version Radeon 9700 pro on Ebay for $299 and oems for less). NV30 better be one up on the Radeon9700. ATI will probably have a DDRII card available as well maybe even by Christmass (I really don't know). R350? when is that surpose to arrive? Well in little over two weeks the mystery will be no more .
.Ok, guys, IF the NV30 has similar FSAA & AF, at similar , or just a bit quicker speeds...... would you pay $400.00 for it when you can now get Radeon 9700's for around $300.00?
Now, I realize that the NV30 MAY have a few extra features, such as +DX9 shaders, but just how quick or often (during the lifespan of the card) will these be used? Overall, I cannot see the NV30 as being able to absolutely slay the 9700....... in fact, I doubt it will be much faster at all. Overall, I think many more will be disappointed in this card than will be impressed........ I hope I'm wrong!
Now, I realize that the NV30 MAY have a few extra features, such as +DX9 shaders, but just how quick or often (during the lifespan of the card) will these be used? Overall, I cannot see the NV30 as being able to absolutely slay the 9700....... in fact, I doubt it will be much faster at all. Overall, I think many more will be disappointed in this card than will be impressed........ I hope I'm wrong!
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