LAIR Thread - * Rules: post #469

[Laa-Yosh]

And holy handkontroll at the size of that coral snake!

Interesting side note: signals travel relatively slow through the nerves, which is why we have a limit on how fast our reactions can be. Now, the larger the creature, the more problems it'll cause... So very lage dinosaurs even had a secondary 'brain' in their pelvis area, near the end of the spine, to control the rear legs and the tail.

So, I can't even guess how slow the reactions of that huge monsteer would have to be

 

[morlock]

Maybe it has multiple brains throughout the body...

The coral snake in Lair is 1 mile long they say. And you'll be fighting two of those at the same time. Wonder what other large bosses they have in the game. A game is nothing without good bossfights.

 

[grymling]

Lair preview:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=166825

Up until now, Lair hasn't been sitting at the top of everyone's Most Anticipated lists beside Metal Gear Solid and Killzone 2. But that,we're willing to bet, is about to change.

Lair's graphical prowess hits you like a bus the moment you start the first level. It has that Factor 5 touch. You leap onto your dragon and launch into the air, and it stuns you with its ultra-high-detail environments that stretch far into the distance for you to gawp at as you soar through the sky on your giant dragon.
......

Sounds great, almost like an interactive movie.I like movies!

 

[morlock]

Direct download from Sony;

Gameplay-videos.
Intro -> http://fp.scea.com/Content/Movies/16321/Vi...1/movie480p.mp4
1 -> http://fp.scea.com/Content/Movies/16258/Vi...1/movie720p.mp4
2 -> http://fp.scea.com/Content/Movies/16259/Vi...1/movie720p.mp4
3 -> http://fp.scea.com/Content/Movies/16260/Vi...1/movie720p.mp4

 

[grymling]

http://generationdreamteam.free.fr/afrika/lair/lairjuinnew11.jpg

SOTC2?

 

[patsu]

Highlights (captured from the videos) by a GAFfer...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6859773&postcount=349

I watched the videos late last night but didn't notice these. The ground texture (The one with huge gaps between tiles) seems to be gone now... assuming it's the same place.

 

[Ben-Nice]

I never really liked the way this game looked but this made me go

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/21033.html

 

[betan]

I always liked the scale, detail, water, most of the creatures and buildings since TGS but if the frame rate problems are not capture/video related I will be very disappointed.

Ground troops while look like stupid standers most of the time, are sufficiently varied so I am curios how they are rendered. Not your typical sprites I assume.

3D waves look much better, splash sprites still suck and main in-game dragon is ugly as ever.
Camera looks very nice for both bullet time and quick directional changes.

But the biggest thing I noticed now is that lack of DoF is going to kill the realism especially with that big of a scale. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a solution without eye tracking peripheral.

Anyway overall it is still very impressive, hope it can play as it looks. We need the demo now.
Oh and hard to believe this game will have native 1080p support, a claim which is forgotten apparently.

 

["Nerve-Damage"]

This awesome scene overlooks the sea, with the most amazing water ripple being lit up by a gorgeous sunset. In 1080p on a on a big screen, it really is a sight to see.

I can't wait!

 

[Terarrim]

OMG look at the pictures on ps3 forums:

http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=80930&page=2

Some of those shots look like they been lifted off a movie

First page has full interview. Second page has lots of high rez screen shots. Crazy crazy graphics never seen anything like it especally at the sheer size of the game to.

Amazing for a sandbox type game, amazing for any type of game for that matter.

And all done in 1080p (native I think).

 

[tha_con]

But the biggest thing I noticed now is that lack of DoF is going to kill the realism especially with that big of a scale. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a solution without eye tracking peripheral.

When was the last time you looked off into the distance and everything got blurry the further you looked out? Probably never. Even when you talk to someone 5 feed away from you, the surroundings in the background do not get blurry.

The only reason I point this out is because you used the word "realism" which is entirely incorrect. If you were referring to cinematic presentation, I'd agree, it would be nice, but for realism, DoF is far from "real".

 

[Cheezdoodles]

When was the last time you looked off into the distance and everything got blurry the further you looked out? Probably never. Even when you talk to someone 5 feed away from you, the surroundings in the background do not get blurry.

The only reason I point this out is because you used the word "realism" which is entirely incorrect. If you were referring to cinematic presentation, I'd agree, it would be nice, but for realism, DoF is far from "real".

Um... Try doing this:

Watch tv. Take your hand and place it infront of you, so your blocking about half the screen. Now focus on the tv. Is the hand getting out of focus\blurry? Now watch the hand, is the tv getting out of focus\blurry? There ya go, real life DoF.

Unless you got some kind of supervision, if your focusing your eyes on one thing, the things surrounding it will become blurry etc.

 

[_phil_]

When was the last time you looked off into the distance and everything got blurry the further you looked out? Probably never. Even when you talk to someone 5 feed away from you, the surroundings in the background do not get blurry.

The only reason I point this out is because you used the word "realism" which is entirely incorrect. If you were referring to cinematic presentation, I'd agree, it would be nice, but for realism, DoF is far from "real".

Slight DOF (Blur) can ease your brain immerse into the visuals ,it kills the 'video game look' , it can even gives a supersampling feel.This is what he meant.You probably want to call it :more believable ,if you prefer.
I wholly agree with that.

 

[betan]

When was the last time you looked off into the distance and everything got blurry the further you looked out? Probably never. Even when you talk to someone 5 feed away from you, the surroundings in the background do not get blurry.

The only reason I point this out is because you used the word "realism" which is entirely incorrect. If you were referring to cinematic presentation, I'd agree, it would be nice, but for realism, DoF is far from "real".

The fact that you missed eye tracking part and assume background should always be blurry because of DoF is confusing really.

Anyway, contrary to what you may think DoF is real and affects (or rather appears in) your eye as much as any camera. The reason is that to avoid convolution of reflecting rays you have to adjust plane of receptors or lens based on distance of the "image" source. That's what focusing means really. Just focus on your finger and notice the blurry room and vice-versa.

A point doesn't reflect a single ray in one direction. Your eye (lens) needs to be able to converge all of them at the same area of receptors otherwise you get blurry image. Unfortunately this depends on distance so there is no way you can focus on two separated objects at the same time. To be clear you cannot really focus on more than two points at the same time. But if the points are close enough interference is minimal.

So when you focus on the dragon of Lair, the fact that you see background clearly, even though it is supposed to be far away, is unrealistic by any means.

 

[dobwal]

Um... Try doing this:

Watch tv. Take your hand and place it infront of you, so your blocking about half the screen. Now focus on the tv. Is the hand getting out of focus\blurry? Now watch the hand, is the tv getting out of focus\blurry? There ya go, real life DoF.

Unless you got some kind of supervision, if your focusing your eyes on one thing, the things surrounding it will become blurry etc.

DOF is only useful in certain genres, in others it becomes a trick (that indirectly may enhance visuals but at the expense of ruining immersion) thats counterintutive to natural vision.

Watch tv. Take your hand and place it infront of you, so your blocking about half the screen. Now focus on the tv. Is the hand getting out of focus\blurry? Now watch the hand, is the tv getting out of focus\blurry? Now at any one time does the object that you are distinctly focused on become blurry? If you happen to have your head pointed directly towards your hand and your eyes turns to focus on the TV, does your eyes refuse to bring the image on the TV into focus.

Used cinematically its a great tool as its purpose is to draw your eyes attention to the object in focus.

DOF at current resolutions is unnecessary as a tool to mimick reality. Your eyes can see in much greater detail then whats allowable at 720p or 1080p at a given distance. Plus, blurring of objects in your peripheral happens naturally even when playing video games so there is no reason to implement DOF unless its used for other purposes like creating a sense of speed. Nor is eye tracking necessary unless the purpose is to focus more graphical power on whats being focused on and less on objects in your peripheral vision, which would be like an enhanced LOD feature.

 

[Nesh]

Um... Try doing this:

Watch tv. Take your hand and place it infront of you, so your blocking about half the screen. Now focus on the tv. Is the hand getting out of focus\blurry? Now watch the hand, is the tv getting out of focus\blurry? There ya go, real life DoF.

Unless you got some kind of supervision, if your focusing your eyes on one thing, the things surrounding it will become blurry etc.

the majority of movies dont use DOF as far as I know. And they dont look "unrealistic".
DOF is not that much of an issue. Unless you are playing a FPS or a war game and you are targeting someone.

What DOF should be used in a game such as LAIR, where and when? Its unnecessary.

It will only be another simple unneeded good effect on rare occasions

 

[betan]

the majority of movies dont use DOF as far as I know. And they dont look "unrealistic".

Nesh, DoF means depth of field (focused area) and for human eye and cameras (unlike games), limited depth of field is not something that can be turned on/off, but it is rather a side effect of lensing (though can be used in an artistic fashion).
So when you see a movie with a clear guy standing in front of a sharp distant background, it means it is fake (2d background or cut-paste stuff).

DOF is not that much of an issue. Unless you are playing a FPS or a war game and you are targeting someone.

DoF does not mean blurring surrounding of a particular area on screen.

What DOF should be used in a game such as LAIR, where and when? Its unnecessary.

It will only be another simple unneeded good effect on rare occasions

Lair is already using DoF for Dragon Boxing as it knows (or safely assumes) where you are focusing. But during the normal in-game flight it looks like cut-paste because there is no way in real life both the dragon and the background can be focused at the same time. Just look at the edges of the dragon.

The reason it is particularly missing in Lair is because of the background distance compared to smaller scaled FPS stuff and it is not something they can solve easily.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

the majority of movies dont use DOF as far as I know. And they dont look "unrealistic".
DOF is not that much of an issue. Unless you are playing a FPS or a war game and you are targeting someone.

What DOF should be used in a game such as LAIR, where and when? Its unnecessary.

It will only be another simple unneeded good effect on rare occasions

DoF in games is basically the same as a camera's ability to focus. Its used in all movies for the last 50 years...

Of course its not an issue with lair, nothing is ever an issue with PS3 titles it seems.

Apparently, certain PS3 owners have supervision, and are able to view everything 100% focused at all times.

 

[morlock]

When fighting 1on1 the effekt of a wide aperture is used. Other than a narrow aperture for unlimited focus when playing would just feel wrong.

Example

DOF effekt is a very welcome feature of todays games, but sometimes it's just overdone and become silly.

 

[Nesh]

DoF in games is basically the same as a camera's ability to focus. Its used in all movies for the last 50 years...

Of course its not an issue with lair, nothing is ever an issue with PS3 titles it seems.

Apparently, certain PS3 owners have supervision, and are able to view everything 100% focused at all times.

Oooooooohhhh. So THAT what explains why the movies I watch look fake whenever there is no DOF and upper real when there is.

Perhaps there is ALWAYS something wrong with PS3 games, and none with 360 games....really....every good 360 game I know has DoF.......oh and every other effect imaginable. Yeah! Thats why they are so real!

Quite apparently:
a) PS3 owners want to feel like they suffer from myopia consantly or something when they play a game
b) Or the PS3's super cerebral processor that connects to your brain cells hence CELL can always know when you are staring at a dragon extremely far away shooting fireballs of death at you on the right corner of the screen and when you are staring at the huge mountain below you thus focus always on the right place.