Kyle throws a [H]issy fit about CrossFire shipping late

[Kanyamagufa]

It's completely justifiable to be upset about ATI's lack of communication on certain matters, but I think Kyle took it too far...he has a history of overreacting, though, doesn't he?

It was wrong for anyone to expect ATI to do have R520 available on launch day without expecting a delay. ATI wasn't expecting nVidia to do what they did with the 7800 any more than we were. It obviously caught them off guard and because this is a year of very large launches (I'm thinking mainly in terms of launching XFire and R520), it's putting them in an even worse light.

And please, let us not forget nVidia and the FX series...

If people need some sort of hope until tomorrow, just go back and reread the R300 articles. ATI has come through for us in the past, and nVidia is far from perfect.

And honestly, I think ATI has learned their lesson, they just didn't have enough time to fix things on this cycle without the delay. Now they know. And I'm sure they're putting it down in the history books, 'cause they don't want it to happen again.

 

[WaltC]

Brent will stay focused on the gaming experience the hardware provides. I will be commenting on other aspects of the launch.

So, I guess this means you'll be leaving the facts to Brent, while choosing yourself to venture off into the land of opinions, unsubstantiated allegation, and editorial license. That's somewhat sad, I think, as sometimes the facts are more compelling and sensational than any comments about them might ever be. I think as well that if you polled your readership you might be surprised to find them far more interested in "the gaming experience the hardware provides" than in your opinions as to what it all means within the tapestry of life. Frankly, I think they'll be able to figure out that part for themselves, don't you?...

 

[jb]

Produce product ---> Announce product. What's so hard about that????? Regardless of delays, new process, unforseen circumstances blah blah blah - there is no requirement to announce a product at any given time - it is completely in the hands of the manufacturer.

Yes I understand that, what I was trying to say is that for YEARS it HAS not been that way. Its always been annouce and then wait. What NV did was a good thing, but you can not expect it from now on to be the NORM just like that...these things take time to learn how to do them right.

 

[CMAN]

I think as well that if you polled your readership you might be surprised to find them far more interested in "the gaming experience the hardware provides" than in your opinions as to what it all means within the tapestry of life. Frankly, I think they'll be able to figure out that part for themselves, don't you?...

I think you overestimate the masses and their ability to percieve the tapestry of life.

 

[WaltC]

I think you overestimate the masses and their ability to percieve the tapestry of life.

Well, it's for certain that some web sites believe steadfastly in the cultivation of ignorance among the masses, isn't it? I mean, why let a fact or two get in the way of a pompous opinion, right?...

 

[fallguy]

pcperspective has a similar followup as well. Also Rahul Sood of voodoopc said something similar as well.

http://voodoopc.blogspot.com/2005/10/reward-if-found-ati-crossfire.html

If you read this months CPU, there is an article with him in it. He seems pretty bitter towards ATi, because Dell gots shipments of cards, and not Voodoo. The article paints bitter feelings that he still has over that, and the bias that comes with it.

 

[trinibwoy]

If you read this months CPU, there is an article with him in it. He seems pretty bitter towards ATi, because Dell gots shipments of cards, and not Voodoo. The article paints bitter feelings that he still has over that, and the bias that comes with it.

Shipments of which cards?

 

[fallguy]

At any rate, so the Crossfire cards/mobos are supposed to ship this week? Is a one week delay really worth getting upset about? Yes NV did a stellar job in getting cards to newegg and others the same day, but as far as I can remember, thats the first time they've done it too. Hopefully its a new trend, but I wont be crying if its a few weeks wait after reviews.

Shipments of which cards?

X800 something, I forget the exact card(s). Its from this months mag I think. I would scan it, but thats not allowed. He just seemed very ticked that Dell got the cards, and he didnt, and still holds a grudge over it. I probably would have been annoyed too, but thats big buisness for you.

 

[panzeramd]

Well, it's for certain that some web sites believe steadfastly in the cultivation of ignorance among the masses, isn't it? I mean, why let a fact or two get in the way of a pompous opinion, right?...

You don't watch Fox News do you

I have said it before and i will say it again, when it comes to journalistc integrity, i am more concerned with the " real " media than i am with an computer hardware site.

If you have ever watched CNN/Fox/CNBC for any length of time you will know what i am talking about. For instance look at the reporting of the israeli\palestinan conflict, it is finely veiled israeli propaganda with no concern for the palestinan situation.

It goes like this.
AP ( initial news report ) -> CNN editors tabled, where the context of the news is changed to what ever is dictated by their corprate boss's -> CNN viewer.

The only time i have seen CNN report on the palestinan's in unbiased light, was ironically when Yassir Arafat died, who was demonized by CNN and the western media.

So in closing and to bring me back on topic, although i am pissed about how kyle acts in the big picture it's only a minor irritation.

By the way eagerly awaiting dave's review not only for the read but also since my A8V died and have ordered an nforce 4 to replace it, so i'm looking for a PCI-E card ( 6800GT is in the lounge PC ).

 

[Hellbinder]

Tool

as in =

 

[Bruce]

the Xpress200 is a decent chipset, but you wouldnt believe how many people think ATI cant make a motherboard even though they have. If they expect to be as well recieved as the Nforce 4 they may have a problem coming their way. They seriously need to win over some OEM contracts here if they want to go anywhere.

i guess you didnt hear about this:
http://www.digitimes.com/mobos/a20050912PR207.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050919_152408.html

with Intel as customer they have at least a good stand on that side i guess?

 

[lopri]

While I've always thought Kyle is a redneck (and I hate rednecks shouting out loud on the internet - they should shout at the farm), some people here need to get the facts straight. Too many people do not read correctly or do not recognize facts as they are - and unfortunately that's how history has been written.

Here ATI is in fault - and it's a FACT. Why? Because they claimed the same-day availability. It's not because the products are not available the same day, not because things didn't go the way ATI wanted it to, or not because people have absurd expectation about their products. It's, simply, because ATI lied, or, while unlikely, they made a mistake regarding availability but didn't explain in a proper way.

Therefore an argument like "2-week availability is OK with me" is inappropriate in this context. Well, I personally don't care even if it's a 6-month availability - that is, as long as that's what I've been told.

Oh, and ATI shouldn't have put their feet on SLI to begin with. We might have had an R520 in our rigs long time ago. (That thing looks impressive!)

lop

P.S. I wish this person on the B3D forum stop posting. His post is really a space waste. Hope he knows who I'm talking about.

P.S. 2 Saving for a future reference.

Edit: Spelling

 

[WaltC]

Here ATI is in fault - and it's a FACT. Why? Because they claimed the same-day availability. It's not because the products are not available the same day, not because things didn't go the way ATI wanted it to, or not because people have absurd expectation about their products. It's, simply, because ATI lied, or, while unlikely, they made a mistake regarding availability but didn't explain in a proper way.

Therefore an argument like "2-week availability is OK with me" is inappropriate in this context. Well, I personally don't care even if it's a 6-month availability - that is, as long as that's what I've been told.

What I haven't seen is a direct quote from ATi officially stating "It will be in the channel and available for purchase on the same day we announce it." I've seen lots of prose written by sites claiming that this is what ATi told them, but none of those claims have been attributed to a named individual at ATi who was quoted. Tech-Report did receive a direct quote from ATi, which it published, stating that the products would be available in a few days, however. I believe several web sites received the same quote, actually. But to read the commentary from some sites addressing that bit of ATi-direct information I get the feeling that some web masters are irked by the fact that when they say "hop" ATi doesn't jump... Well, I guess they'll have to get over it someday.

This topic really falls under Much Ado about Nothing, imo...

 

[HaLDoL]

What I haven't seen is a direct quote from ATi officially stating "It will be in the channel and available for purchase on the same day we announce it." I've seen lots of prose written by sites claiming that this is what ATi told them, but none of those claims have been attributed to a named individual at ATi who was quoted. Tech-Report did receive a direct quote from ATi, which it published, stating that the products would be available in a few days, however. I believe several web sites received the same quote, actually. But to read the commentary from some sites addressing that bit of ATi-direct information I get the feeling that some web masters are irked by the fact that when they say "hop" ATi doesn't jump... Well, I guess they'll have to get over it someday.

This topic really falls under Much Ado about Nothing, imo...

Haven't you seen their ad: Future technology - available now?

 

[martrox]

Here the thing.....While I totally agree with everyone that feels ATi was wrong with their pronouncement of crossfire availibility, the fact is no one in their right mind would/should spend a dime on it as it relates to the X8xx series. It's too flawed - in sooooo many ways - and too expensive, considering just what you get for your hard earned cash. Fact is, while condeming ATi for availibility, these sites should condemn the fact that X8xx crossfire solution should be availible - at all!

Now, as far as the "lateness" of the R5xxx series, I see no problem at all. Yes, they are late when compared to 78xx series from nVidia, but considering just what ATi is trying to do with them, ie. they are a quantum leap techwise over not only the X8xx/7xx series, they look to be a huge leap - featurewise, speedwise and sizewise(.09 vs .011/.013) - over even the 7800 series. We will know more about that very soon. Consider all the problems Intel & AMD has with .09...... ATi is not looking so bad. So the R5 series is 4 months late - consider that the 6xxx series was - from a competitive viewpoint - 2 years late! And durring the last 4 months ATi has surely been more competitive with nVidia than nVidia was with ATi durring the 2 years the R300 reigned supreme....and you cannot compare ATi's paper launches with nVidia lying and cheating durring the 5xxx years. Again, this doesn't take away from the way ATI has delt with this.

Just trying to add some objectitivty to the discussion - something Mr. [H] just is fundimentally incapable of doing. And that's the real crux of just why it's so [H]ard to take Kyle seriously about any of this....... He seems so in touch with his rage and ego to the abandonment of all reason/intellegence.......

 

[jb]

I agree that ATI should get some flak, the said it would be and its not.

However in all fairness they do have limited resources and launching a complete line of "top to bottom" at more or less the same time as xfire is NOT an easy thing to do. So I think some grace time should be allowed....Again doing it on one product line is easy...doing it on many = harder...

 

[Geo]

Therefore an argument like "2-week availability is OK with me" is inappropriate in this context. Well, I personally don't care even if it's a 6-month availability - that is, as long as that's what I've been told.

I would agree with that. And I look at the B3D review and it says:

These Crossfire performance numbers are going up today because systems are supposed to be available for purchase today.

And therefore I have to assume that this is indeed what Wavey, and others, were told. And, if so, Bad ATI PR, BAD. Whap, Whap, Whap! But I made the point upstream about proportionality, and there I think whether it is two weeks vs two months really ought to make a difference in whether you use the Salmon of Correction or the Kyle BFG to apply the remedial action, and it ought to start with a query to ATI along the lines of "excuse me, but wtf?".

 

[HaLDoL]

Here the thing.....While I totally agree with everyone that feels ATi was wrong with their pronouncement of crossfire availibility, the fact is no one in their right mind would/should spend a dime on it as it relates to the X8xx series. It's too flawed - in sooooo many ways - and too expensive, considering just what you get for your hard earned cash. Fact is, while condeming ATi for availibility, these sites should condemn the fact that X8xx crossfire solution should be availible - at all!

Now, as far as the "lateness" of the R5xxx series, I see no problem at all. Yes, they are late when compared to 78xx series from nVidia, but considering just what ATi is trying to do with them, ie. they are a quantum leap techwise over not only the X8xx/7xx series, they look to be a huge leap - featurewise, speedwise and sizewise(.09 vs .011/.013) - over even the 7800 series. We will know more about that very soon. Consider all the problems Intel & AMD has with .09...... ATi is not looking so bad. So the R5 series is 4 months late - consider that the 6xxx series was - from a competitive viewpoint - 2 years late! And durring the last 4 months ATi has surely been more competitive with nVidia than nVidia was with ATi durring the 2 years the R300 reigned supreme....and you cannot compare ATi's paper launches with nVidia lying and cheating durring the 5xxx years. Again, this doesn't take away from the way ATI has delt with this.

Just trying to add some objectitivty to the discussion - something Mr. [H] just is fundimentally incapable of doing. And that's the real crux of just why it's so [H]ard to take Kyle seriously about any of this....... He seems so in touch with his rage and ego to the abandonment of all reason/intellegence.......

The only objective fact on this matter is that ATi promises availablity at launch, and they don't keep that promise. That's all there is to it.

There's no need to bring the NV30 to the scene every time ATI is criticised. Amazing how some people manage to do that.

 

[Bjorn]

they look to be a huge leap - featurewise, speedwise and sizewise(.09 vs .011/.013) - over even the 7800 series

I'm thinking that it's a bit to early to say that it's a huge leap over the 7800. Features, perhaps. But this depends on the speed of these features also. F.e MSAA + HDR. Speed is yet to be determined, size is obvious an advantage, but the only thing that matters there is final cost and this if of course dependant on yields also.

 

[Druga Runda]

if someone want's to buy Crossfire master card in UK they are in stock here:

http://www.e-components.co.uk/product.asp?p_id=577
GeCube Radeon X850 Crossfire Master Card
for £434.21

if anyone is desperate to get them

they have 2 cards in stock