MasterBaiter
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ATI IMHO is definitely deserving of some flak, but I'd back up Digi on what he's said as well (well as long as he doesn't start flinging poo). Moderation in all things is usually good. 
Kyle throws a [H]issy fit about CrossFire shipping late
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I said my bit and got me shot in, I feel all better...I'm done here for now.MasterBaiter said:ATI IMHO is definitely deserving of some flak, but I'd back up Digi on what he's said as well (well as long as he doesn't start flinging poo). Moderation in all things is usually good.
I guess I dont see why everyone one is getting their panties in a bunch about same day availibility. Sure NV set the bar pretty high when they did their 7800gtx. But hardware has always seem to lag behind the annoucements...I don't think it can change over night (and by overnight I mean in a few months when just one player does it)...
I'm sure if ATI had used thier old proccess for a new generation product launch, same day availability would have been easily obtainable as well.
jb said:
Produce product ---> Announce product. What's so hard about that????? Regardless of delays, new process, unforseen circumstances blah blah blah - there is no requirement to announce a product at any given time - it is completely in the hands of the manufacturer.
IRQ Conflict said:
Who says there wont be now? You could order 7800GTXs the same day, you were not getting them the same day, I certainly expect the same thing from ATi. You order them on annoucment day and you get it in about 3 to 4 days, I'm willing to bet stock will certainally be at most big stores come Friday of this week, and they will be taking orders tomorrow.
trinibwoy said:
i think their marketing/PR group is totally in shambles with horrible communication. Thats the most logical reason i can think of. I think the motherboards are ready, have been, but they're sitting someplace, why? They did not need to do X800/X850 Crossfire immediatly, personally i thought this was a bad move to add more stress to a situation that didnt need it. That definitly could of waited, anyone interested isnt going to duck out this late in the game. They have people barking about fraud, the R520 a total miss on launch, the R580 a hit but they have to sit on that now to launch the R520, they're trying to hard launch all ends of cards so they dont catch flak from the media or other people (ahem), and to add to that they have to begin production of chips for the Nintendo Revolution. I think their part in the 360 is done right?
Anyway thats alot, bravo to Nvidia for making ATI spin around like a bunch of morons trying to out do them, which as the smaller company they should not be trying to do. The 9700 was a hit, it was early but it would of been a hit anyway, even 4 months after an FX launch. Now they're just a mess trying to launch way too many products.
CrossFire NEVER should of been announced as far as im concerned. I HATED the return of SLI, and i was definitly shocked to see ATI jump on that train in a blink. Motherboards sure, hell the PURE motherboard looks freakin great, doesnt need 2 cards to show that. But this CrossFire fiasco has gummed up the works in my opinion. They should of discretely made a move into enthusiast motherboards and kept their eye on cards and making superior cores, thats it.
the Xpress200 is a decent chipset, but you wouldnt believe how many people think ATI cant make a motherboard even though they have. If they expect to be as well recieved as the Nforce 4 they may have a problem coming their way. They seriously need to win over some OEM contracts here if they want to go anywhere.
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trinibwoy said:
Generally, the order is announce product, then ship product. Or, if you want to announce and ship on the same day, that's fine, too. The traditional order has always been to announce then ship far more than it has ever been announce & ship on the same day. There is much to be said for announcing and then shipping--which is why, I suppose, it's so much more often done for both hardware and software than is a simultaneous announcement and ship date.
WaltC said:
Historical precedent plays no role here. The order of production -> announcement -> shipping is completely in control of the manufacturer. The announcement of a product before it is available is always a co-ordinated and deliberate move. Unless you subscribe to the recently popular school of thought that companies don't even know when their own products would be available to ship to retailers.
radeonic2 said:You only hate dual cards because you cant afford them
If you can afford why not be given a choice?
not the case, i can if i wanted too. Its the fact that anyone would accept paying around a grand USD and saying thats how games are ment to be played. My ultimate concern is that both ATI and Nvidia are going to reduce over all Core increases in performance/R&D in order to appeal more for dual card computers (dell just launched XPS SLI systems so its catching on). After all they do make twice the profit this way and they could do less work. Less work, more profit = big $$. I dont want that, to go back to the MAXX era where we have an underperforming core so we need 2. Thats all im worried about.
For the record i wouldnt spend that much for 2 reasons, 1 my 19inch LCD is 1280 and wont go higher so i dont need it, and 2 its a waste of money. I'd do it assuming i had the monitor for it if money became so meaningless that i could wipe myself with it.
love my LCD, games look sexy as hell. I cant imagine myself getting anything much bigger either cause im only about 2 feet away. And no more eye strain (physical feeling anyway) after extended periods, a big plus for me. Damn CRT made me go blind. I wont buy another CRT i dont think.
John Reynolds said:
I think that any flak that they get should be related to how truthful they are. If any IHV wants to paper launch x amount of time before shipping that is their decision. If Kyle and others don't like it, let them postpone their reviews until the cards are shipping. OTOH if sites are being deliberately used to spread fud to hurt their competition then of course they should speak up. As I said before, if Kyle thinks he (as well as others) was being used by ATI then let him put his morals were his mouth is and only review shipping products.
trinibwoy said:
It has nothing to do with historical precedence, but the reason for that precedence in the first place. You might even call it a "preference" that sets the precedent, a preference based on common sense. When you announce a product prior to shipping it you give yourself time to promote it in advance and to prepare your intended market for it so that when it does ship you can be assured of the kind of brisk sales which accompany the shipping of a high-profile, positively esteemed product. That's the whole idea of announcing a product prior to shipping it, and that's why it has been a precedent to do it that way. It just makes sense.
Also, when you state that "shipping is completely controlled by the manufacturer," which manufacturer is it that you are talking about? Is it the company selling the product under its own name or the FABs which actually manufacture the products the company orders? Last time I checked the IHVs do not own the FABs, hence they cannot be in complete controll of whatever happens in those FABs. This reality is exactly what sunk nVidia's nV30, if you'll recall.
To some extent I agree with you--if the design an IHV orders from a FAB is flawed then the FAB will have trouble making it even if it focuses all of its resources on doing so. That certainly was the problem for nV with nV30, imo. But I don't think that's what we're talking about here at all...
I think what we're talking about is somebody's goofy idea that "products always exist in the retail channels on the day they are announced"--which of course is totally false, exceptions to the rule notwithstanding.
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