Kutaragi Ken:Want a teraflop? You have to buy a rack from us

[DeadmeatGA]

...

I think I get the jist that Sony cell is not the same as IBM cell

IBM is the licensor of CELL, Sony is the licensee of CELL.

that the slide itself was used to show off Cell computing in general.

Kutaragi has been doing this for the past two years. Hell, he even modified some parts off the slide in the latest showings.

Guess I'll keep quiet until Sony themselves make official announcements on PS3.

I recommend that you do. Sony fans are quite aggressive and are intolerant of their critics.

 

[Panajev2001a]

IBM is the licensor of CELL, Sony is the licensee of CELL.

Wrong, but you can keep dreaming it this way: study up on joint-ventures as CELL is one of them to oput it simply.

CELL = STI

STI = Sony/SCE/SSNC + Toshiba + IBM

SSNC, SCE or Sony has not licensed CELL from IBM: the only major thing they did license was 100 nm SOI manufacturiong technology back in 2000-2001.

Intollerant ?

Well at least we consider them ( and unless it is constant SCE bashing and trollign like tyou love to do people do not lose the patience as much as you are accusing them to do ) and not let the critics come in one ear and out of the other ear like you have done so far.

I am sorry but from you ( from a person with selective quoting issues, that makes of truth bending/stretching a fundamental discussion related asset, etc... ) I do not think people should accept the kind of "holier than thou" stand you are taking.

 

[V3]

Well lets recap what the joint-venture promised to deliver.

http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/news/2001/0312_sony-toshiba.html

Code-named "Cell," the new microchips will employ the world's most advanced research technologies and chip-making techniques, including copper wires, silicon-on-insulator (SOI) transistors and low-K dielectric insulation, with features smaller than 0.10 microns - 1,000 times thinner than a human hair. The result will be consumer devices that are more powerful than IBM's Deep Blue supercomputer, operate at low power and access the broadband Internet at ultra high speeds. Cell will be designed to deliver "teraflops" of processing power.

Will they deliver ?

Kutaragi been taunting Deep Blue to investor, maybe he got something up his sleeve.

 

[Paul]

IBM is the licensor of CELL, Sony is the licensee of CELL.

Nope.

Under the agreement, SCEI, IBM and Toshiba will each manufacture the product for a variety of consumer applications.

http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/news/2001/0312_sony-toshiba.html

Kutaragi has been doing this for the past two years. Hell, he even modified some parts off the slide in the latest showings.

Which is why he said himself that each Cell would have 1TFLOPS performance and 1000 Cells would have 1PFLOPS performance?

Again, Cell and CEllular computing. Are two different things.

 

[London Geezer]

Which is why he said himself that each Cell would have 1TFLOPS performance and 1000 Cells would have 1PFLOPS performance?

Again, Cell and CEllular computing. Are two different things.

Each cell will NOT have a 1Tflop performance!!!!!!!! that's a ridiculous statement.

the whole EE3 (or whatever they're gonna call it) will be hard pushed to reach half that number, and that will contain loads of Cells.....

 

[Deepak]

I think Paul meant...

Entire Processor = 1 CELL!!

 

[Paul]

Ok... Then we will call Cell Broadband Engine

 

[London Geezer]

Well, even then, the EE3 (thats what i'll call it from now on, shorter, easier) will be very very hard pushed to have 1Tflop even theoretical, even raw, even on steroids.
PS3 as a whole (EE3+GS3) might reach it (still skeptical) but really, i'm not raising my hopes too high.... And 1Tflop is VERY VERY high...
Remember that 1000 times the ps2 power doesn't necessarely mean 1Tflop.
And 1Tflop doesn't necessarely give you 1000 times the power of Ps2 either

See what i mean. Maybe we should just stand back a little and wait... That would surely cool down the atmosphere here in the forums, although i doubt Deadmeat will just sit back and wait without making his trademark "Let's bash Sony" threads...

 

[Paul]

You read what I expect a Cellular PS3 CPU to be.

256GFLOPS at around 2-3GHZ.

I'm merely saying, that with Kutaragi saying that Cell would do 1TFLOPS, be it his wishfull thinking or whatever; it basically proves that the blue gene slides are in-acurate. Get what I'm trying to say?

But anyway.

The 1000X thing was total power, and the only way for it all to add up would be to have the 1TFLOPS Floating and 1TOPS integer.

1TFLOPS and 1TOPS integer is already like a few hundred times that of PS2(EE had garbage integer performance).

Then you gotta put everything else into the equation, the GPU's specs, ps3 efficiency, more memory.

We'll see what happens.

 

[London Geezer]

Exactly. I'm amazed at the amount of time spent by some people to praise or despise PS3 or Xbox2 or whatever with Flops talk and everything.
Maybe we should realise that next generation will have such a high computational power, regardless of the name on the frikking box, that the market for tissues will increase 10 times, with all the drool we'll have to wipe off our faces...
see what i mean....

I mean Deadmeat's crusade to discredit Sony is pathetically sad, someone else's crusade to "know" that MS will never be in par with Sony is equally sad, someone else's crusade to discredit Nintendo's efforts the same.

Next generation is gonna be drool-a-thon, 1Tflop or not....

(Honestly, i really have to think very hard to find someone here that is as much of a MS or N hater as Chap or Deadmeat are Sony haters...)

 

[Paul]

I've eased up on the 1TFLOPS thing, but I do not think it is imposible for Sony.

But I'm no longer expecting it. But you know what, Fuck Flops. Everyone is so crazed over what the Floating point operations of PS3 Cell will deliver that everyone is forgetting about the more important specs. These are polygon transform, fillrate, bandwidth. And knowing Sony, these figures will be rediculously high. Especially given all the R&D into PS3.

True, FLOPS can get you better physics and detailed worlds; but who cares. This is all limited by the developer anyway, your not going to see physics in games such as the demos the people at Stanton do or anything in a PS3 game. Technically it may be possible, but your average Dev isn't going to take advantage of this.

Whether the PS3 can top out at around 1TFLOPS or not remains to be seen, but we can already see what PS3 graphics will look like given the seen leap from PSONE to PS2. You can estimate it, and I have even made several diagrams. And these visuals are incredible.

Imagine playing PSONE FMV in real time, this is the world we are about to enter.

 

[London Geezer]

*Some* insances in Ps2 games (especially real time cutscenes) already surpass some of PS1 FMV sequences...

 

[ChryZ]

(Honestly, i really have to think very hard to find someone here that is as much of a MS or N hater as Chap or Deadmeat are Sony haters...)

It's amazing to see how much time certain people spend to voice doubt. I don't like MS much, but do I attacking them 24/7? No, because I simply don't care. So, what's the deal with all this nagging

 

[Paul]

I know

I'm being very consevative.

 

[London Geezer]

i know... conservativism is good for expectations

we're reaching a point of diminishing returns of course, but just look at the improvements from GT2 to GT4.......

or all series that have continued on PS2 from PS1...

then think about PS3/Xbox2/N5

 

[rabidrabbit]

The animation and model complexity do surpass many PSOne game pre-rendered cutscenes, but image quality is sometimes worse.
Best examples of high quality cutscenes that even surpass many PSOne cs's:
Ratchet and Clank, I actually thought the cutscenes in this game were prerendered on first viewing, even the image quality (no jaggies) is that great.
JakII, animation is unsurpassed. This must be them 'Toy Story' graphix
Silent Hill 3, characters are better than in any PSOne era fmv cutscene.
Z.O.E.2, few PSOne have effects that match Z.O.E.2 amazing particles.

I believe the biggest 'wow factor' next gen will be large worlds with much more detail and life than is possible in current consoles.
Think GTA game with cars from GT4, characters with Tekken-quality complexity and animation, and cities beyond what is displayed in any current game. Add a capable physics engine and online play, and there's something to keep those Flops and parallel processing at work.

 

[London Geezer]

The animation and model complexity do surpass many PSOne game pre-rendered cutscenes, but image quality is sometimes worse.
Best examples of high quality cutscenes that even surpass many PSOne cs's:
Ratchet and Clank, I actually thought the cutscenes in this game were prerendered on first viewing, even the image quality (no jaggies) is that great.
JakII, animation is unsurpassed. This must be them 'Toy Story' graphix
Silent Hill 3, characters are better than in any PSOne era fmv cutscene.
Z.O.E.2, few PSOne have effects that match Z.O.E.2 amazing particles.

I believe the biggest 'wow factor' next gen will be large worlds with much more detail and life than is possible in current consoles.
Think GTA game with cars from GT4, characters with Tekken-quality complexity and animation, and cities beyond what is displayed in any current game. Add a capable physics engine and online play, and there's something to keep those Flops and parallel processing at work.

yes... as for the ZOE2 comment... (the ZOE zealot that i am)... i think even today there is nothing that surpasses that in terms of particles. i think the style of ZOE2 is so extreme and unique that it just cant be compared, especially in the amount of particles used.
i guess thanks to that fact it can get away with much more than the "usual looking" game.
yes, SH3 characters and animations look flat out amazing, much better than most FMVs seen in PS1 games (Square excluded of course)...

 

[qwerty2000]

This like the one millionth time we have been aruging about the same thing this year. Why are listenthing to this we all know the ps3 should be able to a chip that can do 500 gflops-1 tflop per second nothing more or nothing less.

 

[zidane1strife]

underestimating... overestimating...

time shall tell... will history repeat itself again?

 

[cthellis42]

Yeah, but which history? PS1's? PS2's? Not that it seems to have affected the sales of either a whole huckuva lot...