Kusumi-Chan Blue XBox with Kasumi-Chan pillow

[passerby]

id love to go to japan just to see how different their culture is from ours (american). This would be weird here, but i guess, from the pic, that its not really that weird.

If you are refering to the... "er*tic culture", the unique thing is that "naughty things" are sold rather more openly. Oh p*rn is available in convenience stores, but isn't that true in various other parts of the world?(genuine question) The "naughty things"(except p*rn) that are sold openly just don't cross into... "crass" territory, though I admit that we're being subjective here.

Another noticeable thing is the politeness. Also there appears to be strong ties to cultural/historical heritage.

Spring and autumn are much nicer

Very true. And Sakura season is approaching too.

 

[nobie]

A large part of Japanese culture, is just American culture put through a Japanese filter (ever notice how all anime charachters look American?).

 

[maskrider]

A large part of Japanese culture, is just American culture put through a Japanese filter (ever notice how all anime charachters look American?).

I disagree. What part of American culture are you talking about ?

And don't ever compare amine stuffs to American, they just don't compare.

 

[StefanS]

Spring and autumn are much nicer

Very true. And Sakura season is approaching too.

Well, you know I'd like to but my choice is very limited, since this is going to be longer trip. So I'll take what I can get

 

[Evil_Cloud]

A large part of Japanese culture, is just American culture put through a Japanese filter (ever notice how all anime charachters look American?).

I disagree. What part of American culture are you talking about ?

And don't ever compare amine stuffs to American, they just don't compare.

What is American 'culture' next to Mc Donalds?
Anime is pure Japanese, not American.

 

[archie4oz]

A large part of Japanese culture, is just American culture put through a Japanese filter (ever notice how all anime charachters look American?).

That's a bit too over generalized, you could say that about any culture nowadays... Besides, how many "Americans" do you know who have eyes the size of saucers and can secrete 11 gallons of water per second, get nosebleeds from ero, or have naturally pointy ears and pink, or green hair?

Oh and good luck finding a squat for Hanami...

 

[cthellis42]

I know they're popular, maskrider... Do you think that makes them LESS disturbing? Especially considering the nature of the games they generally come from.

Besides, how many "Americans" do you know who have eyes the size of saucers and can secrete 11 gallons of water per second, get nosebleeds from ero, or have naturally pointy ears and pink, or green hair?

I think just me. I'm also very pathetic, yet have every girl in close proximity pining after me.

 

[nondescript]

Way OT, but, I couldn't pass up this gem:

I'm also very pathetic, yet have every girl in close proximity pining after me.

Haha, you hit the central premise of every school-drama anime ever made.

 

[nobie]

A large part of Japanese culture, is just American culture put through a Japanese filter (ever notice how all anime charachters look American?).

I disagree. What part of American culture are you talking about ?

And don't ever compare amine stuffs to American, they just don't compare.

Well I'm sure you're aware that since WWII America has occupied Japan (their are US Navy bases in Japan to this day). Inevitably the Japanese have been exposed to massive doses of American culture, and that influence is very evident in their own pop-culture. For example "Hideki" or "J-Pop" is unequivocally western style music (even to the point of mixing in english lyrics), and like I said most Anime charachters look western. Note that I'm not saying America is "better" or anything like that, I'll be the first to say that America has problems. But the American influence in Japanese pop-culture is a simple sociological fact.

 

[archie4oz]

Well I'm sure you're aware that since WWII America has occupied Japan (their are US Navy bases in Japan to this day).

Gee, who on the planet isn't aware of this?

Inevitably the Japanese have been exposed to massive doses of American culture, and that influence is very evident in their own pop-culture. For example "Hideki" or "J-Pop" is unequivocally western style music

Yes and European and other Asian countries as well... Japan has always been a nexus point for culturedumping (and invariably blending their own uniques aspects to it to create something new)...

"J-Pop" isn't really "western" music either, although it does borrow from it. Kayokyoku (Japanese pop music), came about from blending traditional songs with pentatonic rhythm. Enka (Japanese folk) singers popularized it...

The 50's in Japan were all about latin music and the 60's were all about British rock bands...

The J-pop you hear today is born out of kayokyoku songs "cheapend" in the karaoke boom into disposable pop (now often taking advantage of several of the onomatopoetic aspects of the Japanese language itself)...

Of course this just focusses on "pop" music and doesn't get into rock, folk, classical (both Japanese and European), R&B, or Hip-hop and Rap...

However if you *ARE* looking for strictly Amercian influence than look no further than the quintessential American music; Jazz... Ironically Japan is bigger consumer of the genre than the country it was born from...

(even to the point of mixing in english lyrics)

This has more to do with sprinkling English in daily language is "catchy" (much like you see English often littered with French, although I wouldn't go so far to say that American culture is french culture through an American filter)... Besides 6 years of English is compulsory for all Japanese students anyways (although they're still not very good at it and have come to distinguish English and "Conversational" English as two different things), is it's inevitable that the language is going to have words that creep into daily use (although there's plenty of French and German that work their ways into it as well)...

and like I said most Anime charachters look western.

Actually most anime characters look their part... I don't think "western" is the right term since they don't really look that either... I'm not sure if it's the big eyes (simple technique to expose more emotion) or the hair styles/colors the seem to make many people think think of them as "western"... (I think it's just self projection personally)

But the American influence in Japanese pop-culture is a simple sociological fact.

There's no doubt about that, and you can say that the opposite is true as well... But you didn't say it was influenced, you said it *was* American culture through a filter (which is quite different)...

 

[cthellis42]

There's no doubt about that, and you can say that the opposite is true as well...

Just WHAT are you getting at here? Sounds silly. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going out for some sushi, then going to hit a karaoke bar with my friends...

 

[nobie]

Inevitably the Japanese have been exposed to massive doses of American culture, and that influence is very evident in their own pop-culture. For example "Hideki" or "J-Pop" is unequivocally western style music

Yes and European and other Asian countries as well... Japan has always been a nexus point for culturedumping (and invariably blending their own uniques aspects to it to create something new)...

"J-Pop" isn't really "western" music either, although it does borrow from it.

This is my point...

(much like you see English often littered with French, although I wouldn't go so far to say that American culture is french culture through an American filter)...

In large part America was formed by immigrants from European countries. Obviously their cultural influence is evident in our society, particularly that of the French, Germans, Spanish, and of course English. Wouldn't you say that the Cajun culture in Louisiana is French culture put through an American filter?

and like I said most Anime charachters look western.

Actually most anime characters look their part... I don't think "western" is the right term since they don't really look that either... I'm not sure if it's the big eyes (simple technique to expose more emotion) or the hair styles/colors the seem to make many people think think of them as "western"... (I think it's just self projection personally)

Most of the anime charachters I've seen are definitely not Asian. I don't think it's just a matter of the style, as their is a distinction visible between Asians and non-Asians in anime (take Wu-Fei from Gundam Wing, he is definitely Asian, the other charachters are not).

But the American influence in Japanese pop-culture is a simple sociological fact.

There's no doubt about that, and you can say that the opposite is true as well... But you didn't say it was influenced, you said it *was* American culture through a filter (which is quite different)...

You're taking what I said out of context. I said a "large part" of Japanese culture is Americana put through a Japanese filter, and it's obvious I was talking about modern pop-culture, not samurais and geisha.

 

[maskrider]

I know they're popular, maskrider... Do you think that makes them LESS disturbing? Especially considering the nature of the games they generally come from.

That doesn't disturb me. Ha ha ha !

In large part America was formed by immigrants from European countries. Obviously their cultural influence is evident in our society, particularly that of the French, Germans, Spanish, and of course English.

Japanese letters are from Chinese pronounciations, and Kanji are from Chinese. Certainly they imported a lot of foreign words into their vocabulary, but which country doesn't (may be French).

Most of the anime charachters I've seen are definitely not Asian. I don't think it's just a matter of the style, as their is a distinction visible between Asians and non-Asians in anime (take Wu-Fei from Gundam Wing, he is definitely Asian, the other charachters are not).

They don't simply look Western nor American nor Asian. They've found the look that people like and they stick to it. And the characters in some anime (anime is itself an imported word) that happen in the west will naturally have some westerners look on them. But that's all.

You're taking what I said out of context. I said a "large part" of Japanese culture is Americana put through a Japanese filter, and it's obvious I was talking about modern pop-culture, not samurais and geisha.

That "large part" is ambiguous, anyone can say by replacing "American" with name of some western countries (or Chinese, I mean the ancient Chinese).

 

[nobie]

In large part America was formed by immigrants from European countries. Obviously their cultural influence is evident in our society, particularly that of the French, Germans, Spanish, and of course English.

Japanese letters are from Chinese pronounciations, and Kanji are from Chinese. Certainly they imported a lot of foreign words into their vocabulary, but which country doesn't (may be French).

This is a bit sidetracked, as we're talking about pop-culture. I believe the Chinese charachters and pronounciations you speak of were established in Japan many many moons ago, and do not really qualify as pop-culture.

Most of the anime charachters I've seen are definitely not Asian. I don't think it's just a matter of the style, as their is a distinction visible between Asians and non-Asians in anime (take Wu-Fei from Gundam Wing, he is definitely Asian, the other charachters are not).

They don't simply look Western nor American nor Asian. They've found the look that people like and they stick to it. And the characters in some anime (anime is itself an imported word) that happen in the west will naturally have some westerners look on them. But that's all.

We'll simply have to agree to disagree, but I believe the general concensus (even among anime fans) is that anime charachters usually appear western. I even found an encyclopedia entry for "Manga" that makes note of it.

You're taking what I said out of context. I said a "large part" of Japanese culture is Americana put through a Japanese filter, and it's obvious I was talking about modern pop-culture, not samurais and geisha.

That "large part" is ambiguous, anyone can say by replacing "American" with name of some western countries (or Chinese, I mean the ancient Chinese).

I don't want to debate semantics, this is beside the point.

 

[archie4oz]

Wouldn't you say that the Cajun culture in Louisiana is French culture put through an American filter?

I might, but I'd toss in a bit of Spanish influence as well... Also Cajun culture isn't completely representative of American culture either... It's a rather small subset...

(take Wu-Fei from Gundam Wing, he is definitely Asian, the other charachters are not).

Ummm... Heero is Japanese (and he sure as hell behaves like it too)... Quatre is "Arabian" (which he looks nothing like unless he's the son of Lawrence of Arabia, and he reminds me of Jiro from GLAY)... I dunno WTF Trowa is but his hairstyle screams K-Pop singer...

Obviously there are characters that are done to depict certain ethnicities and/or fit into a particular setting. And often depictions are often exaggerated to emphasize are particular trait (Wu-Fei is obviously an exaggerated character)...

I mean who's the more convincing Japanese woman? Aoi (Ai Yori Aoshi), or Misato (Eva)?

I said a "large part" of Japanese culture is Americana put through a Japanese filter, and it's obvious I was talking about modern pop-culture, not samurais and geisha.

I wasn't talking about samurai or geisha either... And just how much is a *large* part?

but I believe the general concensus (even among anime fans) is that anime charachters usually appear western. I even found an encyclopedia entry for "Manga" that makes note of it.

General consensus from whom?

it is often noted that the characters look "Western", or have large eyes.

Take a wild guess who's "often noting"... Go ask the same question in Japan and you'll get a different answer....

Obviously the entry goes on to elaborate somewhat on the backround of the trait (although it fails to delve into the common application of good guys having large eyes, and bad guys having small eyes)...

Large eyes have become a permanent fixation in manga and anime since the 1960s when Osamu Tezuka, creator of Astro Boy and considered the father of modern manga, started drawing them that way, mimicking the style of Disney cartoons from America. Being a very diverse artform, however, not all manga artists adhere to the conventions most popularized in the west through anime such as Akira, Sailor Moon, Dragonball Z and Ranma 1/2.

 

[Almasy]

nobie, is there even an american culture? I mean, aside from the fact that every culture burrows from every other culture, isn´t it true that the U.S. doesn´t even have a true national identity because it´s at its core a mish mash of different people from different cultures? Japan certainly has a much more and more meaningfull culture than America.

 

[maskrider]

This is what you've said for your reference.

A large part of Japanese culture, is just American culture put through a Japanese filter (ever notice how all anime charachters look American?).

This is a bit sidetracked, as we're talking about pop-culture. I believe the Chinese charachters and pronounciations you speak of were established in Japan many many moons ago, and do not really qualify as pop-culture.

Then you call it a side track for pop culture. And indeed we have already side-tracked to far away off-topic since we moved away from talking about the objects in the subject.

We'll simply have to agree to disagree, but I believe the general concensus (even among anime fans) is that anime charachters usually appear western. I even found an encyclopedia entry for "Manga" that makes note of it.

Manga is the pronounciation of 2 Kanji words that means comics.

Your anime fans are very different from mine then. I rest my comment.

 

[archie4oz]

Japan certainly has a much more and more meaningfull culture than America.

I think "distinctive" would be a better choice of words rather than "meaningful"...

 

[nondescript]

B3D - the place where people talk about games, graphics, hardware, cultural relativism and social constructionism.

Anyways, here's my two cents.

Japanese Culture in General

I think if your understanding of Japanese culture only comes from anime and pop music (J-pop as it is called in the US), you are only seeing a small subset of whole culture. Imagine what people would think of the US if all they knew is Hollywood movies and MTV.

Personally, I find the depth of Japanese culture comes from their re-interpretation of Confucian, Taoist, and Buddhist thought, and their unique aesthetic sense. For example, tea culture, which was imported from China during the Tang dynasty, was refined and taken to the nth level by the Japanese.

It goes without question that Japan has adopted large parts of many cultures. I'd say 10% of common vocabulary is directly from English, and maybe 20%-30% for specialized vocabulary, espicially in technical and scientific fields. And of course there's kanji, and the Chinese pronounciation, which accounts for over half of the vocabulary, I'd say...

But what about English - a mish-mash of Saxon and Norman French, which itself is from Latin? And how much of American culture is directly decendant from Greco-Roman and Judeo-Christian traditions?

Anime

As to anime, I believe it has a direct lineage from the ukiyo-e wood block printing in the later parts of the Tokugawa shogunate, where text and pictures was arranged to form intracate and highly stylized picture books. (Often with 4-6 color printing, after exotic dyes started coming in from Western countries) This craftsman tradition directly evolved into manga, and with the widespread adoption of TV in the 60's and 70's, anime.

As to what caused the advent of saucer-eyed, colored hair, ridiculously proportioned anime character immediately following WWII, I have no clue.

My guess is, like all Asian nations from 1850 onwards, they have had a love-hate relationship with the West - a admiration for their (the West)technology, and a hatred and fear of their power and domination. However, unlike the rest of Asia, Japan was not subjugated by the West, modernizing very sucessfully under Meiji, and even defeating the Russians, and entering treaties on equal terms with Western nations. Throughout the early 20th century, Japan had the confidence to refuse Western cultural influence under the policy of "Western technology, Japanese spirit" (I forgot the exact slogan in Japanese). By contrast, China was torn apart over how to deal with Western dominance.

However, after WWII, that question of Western dominance was posed even more starkly than before - foreign troops were sitting victorious on the home islands, something that had never happened in the entire course of Japanese history.

I think this has something to do with the invention of our saucer-eyed friends.

[EDIT: Added subsections to break up the post, as it is rather long]

 

[nobie]

This is what you've said for your reference.

A large part of Japanese culture, is just American culture put through a Japanese filter (ever notice how all anime charachters look American?).

This is a bit sidetracked, as we're talking about pop-culture. I believe the Chinese charachters and pronounciations you speak of were established in Japan many many moons ago, and do not really qualify as pop-culture.

Then you call it a side track for pop culture. And indeed we have already side-tracked to far away off-topic since we moved away from talking about the objects in the subject.

Read what I said. I was talking about a facet of Japanese culture, specifically as it relates to Anime. Anime is pop-culture. If you misunderstood, then sorry, but by now it should be painfully clear what I meant.

Regardless, this is just a grammar flame and is entirely beside the point.

We'll simply have to agree to disagree, but I believe the general concensus (even among anime fans) is that anime charachters usually appear western. I even found an encyclopedia entry for "Manga" that makes note of it.

Manga is the pronounciation of 2 Kanji words that means comics.

Eh, your point is? Are you saying Manga charachters look like westerners, but Anime charachters don't? There is no such distinction. Moot point.