Many people, mainly the non-english-speaking ones, don't know it has a derogrative meaning. I didn't know until a couple of years ago.Qroach said:
Kojima agrees - Western devs are king
- Thread starter Johnny Awesome
- Start date
Yeah, but chap certainly does. He's been around here and posting in threads (and probably called on it) a number of times before.london-boy said:
I'm not really sure how people don't know anymore. I mean, aren't slang and insults the first thing we run across?
Oh yeah i didn't see who used it... The poltergeist.
We do need an exorcism here, another one, now that we also found out that SegaR&D is Deadmeat.
We do need an exorcism here, another one, now that we also found out that SegaR&D is Deadmeat.
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
The trend has been going on for years. Last year the big games were NFSU, Mario Kart, EA Sports, SOCOM: II, Project Gotham Racing 2, Jak II, R&C II, LotR: RotK, etc....
Other than Nintendo first party games, Japanese developers are trending downward in a big way in the US market. I don't have EU data, but I imagine the trend is similar there as well.
To be honest, this is the main reason Nintendo is having such trouble with the Gamecube: People's tastes have changed. Mario and Zelda aren't really hot commodities amongst the casual gaming crowd anymore. Nintendo's 1st party games can't really move much hardware anymore.
It's ironic, because with Goldneye and Perfect Dark, they were on the right track long before many other Japanese developers were. Then they abandoned the 2nd party stuff like SK, F5, and Rare in favor of more Mario games, with the odd exception like Metroid (Retro). It's funny because Miyamoto is now really holding Nintendo back. If they had two or three western developers under their wing they might have had a chance this generation, but Retro can't move Cubes by themselves, especially when they are so limited by the Metroid license.
Other than Nintendo first party games, Japanese developers are trending downward in a big way in the US market. I don't have EU data, but I imagine the trend is similar there as well.
To be honest, this is the main reason Nintendo is having such trouble with the Gamecube: People's tastes have changed. Mario and Zelda aren't really hot commodities amongst the casual gaming crowd anymore. Nintendo's 1st party games can't really move much hardware anymore.
It's ironic, because with Goldneye and Perfect Dark, they were on the right track long before many other Japanese developers were. Then they abandoned the 2nd party stuff like SK, F5, and Rare in favor of more Mario games, with the odd exception like Metroid (Retro). It's funny because Miyamoto is now really holding Nintendo back. If they had two or three western developers under their wing they might have had a chance this generation, but Retro can't move Cubes by themselves, especially when they are so limited by the Metroid license.
Johnny Awesome said:
Jak II, R&C II, sadly, didn't really hit it big time commercially. The whole series deserved much more sales than they did. Even now that the third installments are out, no one is talking about them, and they are some of the best games this generation. Oh well...
We did? Aw... I'm afraid I missed the surprise revelation thread! I guess I was just enjoying the quiet.london-boy said:
cthellis42 said:We did? Aw... I'm afraid I missed the surprise revelation thread! I guess I was just enjoying the quiet.london-boy said:
Shhhhhhh just don't say their names three times in a row or they'll appear out of nowhere.
cthellis42 said:We did? Aw... I'm afraid I missed the surprise revelation thread! I guess I was just enjoying the quiet.london-boy said:
I said:SegaR&D said:
EDIT: And also, the whole referring Ken Kutaragi as if he's making PS3 himself, with his own hands... Added to the PSX3 thing reminds me of someone who shouldn't be here.
It was lost in the 21st page of the mammoth PS3-NV thread.
Ah, my bad. That thread was indeed like a black hole that would swallow all your hopes and dreams...london-boy said:
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
Everywhere outside of Japan, the Gamecube is struggling and Japanese developers in general are finding it harder and harder to sell their games.
Johnny Awesome said:
I don't think people understood the first 87 times you said that in the last 12 seconds. I'm sure it's all clear now
Everwhere inside of Japan, the Xbox is struggling and Western developers in general are finding it harder and harder to sell their games.Johnny Awesome said:
Ok, sarcasm aside (it's not actually "harder" it's more like "a few have been able to sell their games at all"), how about this? When a form of media becomes really, really profitable and popular, more publishers and developers are entering, increasing competition, diluting the field, driving smaller players out canning lesser-performing products, and emphasizing home companies and home dollars in their home markets
Why did Japanese developers have such dominance before? After Atari crapped up the field, they were the ones who brought about its resurgence. They made the machines, they brought in the new playstyles that established themselves, they consolidated the developer talent into larger companies faster, and most importantly--they were the ones to follow.
After the market spreads out, becomes more inclusive, shifts in where the money is made, has more big business practices filtering throughout...? Well then you see the usual market factors hold true: advantage lies with the home markets. They have the more recognizable names, acquire the locally-popular licenses, note the change in gaming trends in their local markets faster, aim towards their local markets with much more emphasis, consolidate their marketing dollars within them...
Just what is it that should actually be surprising us here? Our taste in games is widely different, and since the market fluctuates depending on regional tastes, the local developers--with more profit at stake and more home-grown talent--know how to appeal better to their own than abroad. US and European tastes align more closely--which makes them a better cross-market--but even then you find many games that will sell very well in one, but elicit a shrug in the other. And they have decidedly different "dependable brands" that they are encouraged to continue developing for because the home market feeds on it, while it may wear off on others much faster.
I'll ask the question again--what is your point? We tend to have more people rightly railing on the "follow the leader" and unimaginative tendencies of ALL markets than thinking there's anything particularly ominous about this "shocking fact." And should we raise eyebrows at people who think a foreign market is more interesting than their own? To many people things are interesting because they are foreign and less-familiar.
We see examples of tripe and greatness wherever we go. We assign those labels individually and worry when the gaming field seems to be heading away from us, and get giddy when it's coming closer. But guess what? The gaming market doesn't care at all what our opinions are: it follows the popular, spends more effort feeding the masses, and tends to shy away from the interesting-but-doesn't-sell-well.
Johnny Awesome said:
Zelda could be huge next-gen if they stick with the look everyone loves, the one in their Legend of Zelda trailer. Wind Waker nearly killed the license for casuals, but it can be resurrected. Same with Mario but it will be more difficult. Nintendo fails to grasp the idea that its not all about gameplay nowadays, its also about immersion, having a good story, good voice-over work, a worth-while story (and I know Nintendo is able to make one even within their kid friendly games, look at their rpg's, they have hilarious dialogues)...honestly its like Nintendo gave up this generation.
Are you talking about Jak 3 and Up Your Arsenal?cthellis42 said:As well, I'm curious as to some of your boldcasing choices. I assume you left out Metroid Prime as you assign that to Retro Studios, but why Ace Combat 5? Meanwhile, we have two platformers that are by US studios, but are still distinctly Eastern-flavored from a typically Eastern genre (and who knows how much influence Sony still had over their design being second parties?), a crappier fighting game that sells only due to its license of a crappier anime series...
gleemax said:Are you talking about Jak 3 and Up Your Arsenal?cthellis42 said:As well, I'm curious as to some of your boldcasing choices. I assume you left out Metroid Prime as you assign that to Retro Studios, but why Ace Combat 5? Meanwhile, we have two platformers that are by US studios, but are still distinctly Eastern-flavored from a typically Eastern genre (and who knows how much influence Sony still had over their design being second parties?), a crappier fighting game that sells only due to its license of a crappier anime series...
Who else would he be talking about?
The only platformers from second (aren't they first?) party studios are the Jak and Ratchet franchises, from Naughty Dog and Insomniac. Now THAT was a good choice from Sony.
london-boy said:Who else would he be talking about?
cthellis42: I don't see how Jak 3 and UYA are "Eastern-flavored" at all. I haven't played Jak 3 yet (besides the demo), but all three Ratchet games and the first two Jak games didn't feel Japanese to me. I would sooner mistake Sly Cooper for a Japanese game. Maybe I've been playing too many mushroom-inspired Japanese games.
Totally agreed. Their games are consistently great (and they're selling well!).lonndon-boy said:
(SCE bought Naughty Dog. Insomniac is still independent.)
deviantchild
Regular
kopio0 said:
EA closed Origin
EA will most likely retain rights to Wing Commander only for handheld ports and "cease and desist"ing anyone making WC-alikes
Yes. For one, platformers--2D and 3D--kinda sprung from Mario's loins, they both have a more cartoony and superdeformed style, and have distinct "mascot" and "sidekick" flavors... The games themselves are more action-heavy, but I I would align their style and genre more in that direction than US/Euro, wouldn't you?gleemax said:
It doesn't need to be Mario to feel more like one is playing those style of games.
Sly Cooper is more of a mixed bag, as cel shading makes me lean that way (tends to come off as more "anime"), but the stealth aspect has notable examples to draw from either: Deus Ex? MGS? Splinter Cell? Tenchu? Hehe...
They've both gone down more over time (Jak to Jak II especially), but it's still a "genre" thing. Like the difference between RPG's--EA developed LotR: The Third Age, but it was distinctly an "eastern-style" RPG.
Frankly, I put Sucker Punch, Naughty Dog, and Insomnic at the fore for platformers right now, but I still see their art-style and game-style as being based on Japanese foundations rather than US ones. It's kinda like fighting games. "Brawlers" are western, but "fighting games" are eastern, no matter who makes them.
(At least, they start out with definite leanings in those directions which can be overcome.)cthellis42 said:
EWWWWWWW... Gross!!?
