Pepto-Bismol
Newcomer
PC-Engine said:Uh..no..that was Shinji Mikami of Capcom.
Oops ... my bad.
Kojima agrees - Western devs are king
- Thread starter Johnny Awesome
- Start date
Oops ... my bad.
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
Looks like Kojima proved himself right.
November NPD:
1 XBX HALO 2 / $87,669,050/ 1,777,697
2 XBX HALO 2 LIMITED ED / $81,269,580 / 1,489,406
3 PS2 GRAND THEFT: ANDREAS / $76,126,580 / 1,536,301
4 PS2 NEED SPEED:UNDRGRND 2 / $21,155,680 / 427,724
5 PS2 WWE SMACKDOWN VS RAW / $17,734,720 / 361,544
6 PS2 METAL GEAR3:SNAKE EAT / $14,379,330 / 290,376 <-
7 XBX NEED SPEED:UNDRGRND 2 / $11,319,100 / 229,611
8 PS2 MADDEN NFL 2005 / $10,411,060 / 334,824
9 GCN METROID PRIME 2: ECHO / $9,483,345 / 192,332
10 PS2 DRAGONBALL Z:BUDOKAI3 / $8,449,652 / 178,034
11 PS2 RATCHET & CLANK: UP / $8,191,299 / 207,518
12 PS2 TONY HAWK UNDERGRND 2 / $7,737,766 / 168,201
13 PS2 JAK 3 / $7,006,415 / 177,335
14 GCN PAPER MARIO: THOUSAND /$6,699,387 / 143,399
15 PS2 CALL OF DUTY: FINEST / $6,683,578 / 135,234
16 PS2 NBA LIVE 2005 / $6,062,586 / 187,346
17 PS2 KILLZONE / $5,388,861 / 109,297
18 PS2 ACE COMBAT 5: UNSUNG / $5,340,555 / 111,493
19 GCN MARIO POWER TENNIS / $4,824,762 / 98,100
20 XBX T.CLANCY GHOST RECON2 / $4,787,044 / 96,224
Once again, the evidence mounts: Other than two Nintendo first party games and MGS3 (very disappointing sales), Japanese developers haven't been able to crack the sales Top 20.
November NPD:
1 XBX HALO 2 / $87,669,050/ 1,777,697
2 XBX HALO 2 LIMITED ED / $81,269,580 / 1,489,406
3 PS2 GRAND THEFT: ANDREAS / $76,126,580 / 1,536,301
4 PS2 NEED SPEED:UNDRGRND 2 / $21,155,680 / 427,724
5 PS2 WWE SMACKDOWN VS RAW / $17,734,720 / 361,544
6 PS2 METAL GEAR3:SNAKE EAT / $14,379,330 / 290,376 <-
7 XBX NEED SPEED:UNDRGRND 2 / $11,319,100 / 229,611
8 PS2 MADDEN NFL 2005 / $10,411,060 / 334,824
9 GCN METROID PRIME 2: ECHO / $9,483,345 / 192,332
10 PS2 DRAGONBALL Z:BUDOKAI3 / $8,449,652 / 178,034
11 PS2 RATCHET & CLANK: UP / $8,191,299 / 207,518
12 PS2 TONY HAWK UNDERGRND 2 / $7,737,766 / 168,201
13 PS2 JAK 3 / $7,006,415 / 177,335
14 GCN PAPER MARIO: THOUSAND /$6,699,387 / 143,399
15 PS2 CALL OF DUTY: FINEST / $6,683,578 / 135,234
16 PS2 NBA LIVE 2005 / $6,062,586 / 187,346
17 PS2 KILLZONE / $5,388,861 / 109,297
18 PS2 ACE COMBAT 5: UNSUNG / $5,340,555 / 111,493
19 GCN MARIO POWER TENNIS / $4,824,762 / 98,100
20 XBX T.CLANCY GHOST RECON2 / $4,787,044 / 96,224
Once again, the evidence mounts: Other than two Nintendo first party games and MGS3 (very disappointing sales), Japanese developers haven't been able to crack the sales Top 20.
Well, Halo 2 and GTA hardly count, as their extrodinary hype and marketing expenses basically put them up on another plane of existance.
That is pretty sad for MGS3, but then wasn't it only on sale for half the month? And there was certainly no buildup to it like there was to MGS2--other than the usual magazine editors' drooling--probably because they knew they'd be lost in the shuffle regardless. We'll get a better idea with December's numbers, since it also will cover holiday purchases. Anything that wasn't needed "NOW NOW BUY IT NOW!" likely got shunted to a "pick it up for Christmas" category anyway.
As well, it tends to point to game release tendencies and relative excitement rather than wholesale trends. What let last year in November? As I recall it was Mario Kart and FFX-2. (Half-month sales figures, both.)
As well, I'm curious as to some of your boldcasing choices. I assume you left out Metroid Prime as you assign that to Retro Studios, but why Ace Combat 5? Meanwhile, we have two platformers that are by US studios, but are still distinctly Eastern-flavored from a typically Eastern genre (and who knows how much influence Sony still had over their design being second parties?), a crappier fighting game that sells only due to its license of a crappier anime series... There are many ways to measure influence.
Frankly, I'm not really sure what we're looking for. Is there some huge underlying "causality" that is writing the future on the walls? Or.. um... could it be that developers know how to and have the tendency to appeal to their home-grown audiences first? (Shocking, I know!)
The major change we've seen is that FPSes--a decidedly Western genre since it's PC-originated--has gained a good foothold in consoles as well, joining sports games and racing games in the "simple games a lot of guys like" category. The US market will also lean toward more "wrestling games" and alternative sports rather than "fighting games;" just note how quickly DoA: Ultimate seems to have sunk in the list, despite its high profile. (And it came out at the very end of October.)
As usual, after a market is diluted and there's plenty of competition--and a broader range of the public involved--developers are going to be much more able to target the audiences they know more, and put the most emphasis toward.
Meanwhile, just when and where do people choose to make a big deal about sales figures? Seems to me that half the time people are complaining that sales are meaningless when it points to those "unimaginative games that are simply appealing to the brainless masses" and yet it can also be used to show "something definitive" about other countries' developers... how, precisely?
Frankly, when I look at quality games--ones that rank highly in online sources, or even just among us here--I see a pretty good split between a lot of developers, whether we're talking North American, Japanese, Euro... And when I look for games that are simply "fine" and "fun" and widely appealing, I certainly expect to see local markets selling to their markets best. They know the terrain, they localize the appeal, they spend more marketing dollars, they have a more recognizable brand name... you name it.
So... um... for what purpose was this resurrected again?
That is pretty sad for MGS3, but then wasn't it only on sale for half the month? And there was certainly no buildup to it like there was to MGS2--other than the usual magazine editors' drooling--probably because they knew they'd be lost in the shuffle regardless. We'll get a better idea with December's numbers, since it also will cover holiday purchases. Anything that wasn't needed "NOW NOW BUY IT NOW!" likely got shunted to a "pick it up for Christmas" category anyway.
As well, it tends to point to game release tendencies and relative excitement rather than wholesale trends. What let last year in November? As I recall it was Mario Kart and FFX-2. (Half-month sales figures, both.)
As well, I'm curious as to some of your boldcasing choices. I assume you left out Metroid Prime as you assign that to Retro Studios, but why Ace Combat 5? Meanwhile, we have two platformers that are by US studios, but are still distinctly Eastern-flavored from a typically Eastern genre (and who knows how much influence Sony still had over their design being second parties?), a crappier fighting game that sells only due to its license of a crappier anime series...
There are many ways to measure influence.Frankly, I'm not really sure what we're looking for. Is there some huge underlying "causality" that is writing the future on the walls? Or.. um... could it be that developers know how to and have the tendency to appeal to their home-grown audiences first? (Shocking, I know!)
The major change we've seen is that FPSes--a decidedly Western genre since it's PC-originated--has gained a good foothold in consoles as well, joining sports games and racing games in the "simple games a lot of guys like" category. The US market will also lean toward more "wrestling games" and alternative sports rather than "fighting games;" just note how quickly DoA: Ultimate seems to have sunk in the list, despite its high profile. (And it came out at the very end of October.)
As usual, after a market is diluted and there's plenty of competition--and a broader range of the public involved--developers are going to be much more able to target the audiences they know more, and put the most emphasis toward.
Meanwhile, just when and where do people choose to make a big deal about sales figures? Seems to me that half the time people are complaining that sales are meaningless when it points to those "unimaginative games that are simply appealing to the brainless masses" and yet it can also be used to show "something definitive" about other countries' developers... how, precisely?
Frankly, when I look at quality games--ones that rank highly in online sources, or even just among us here--I see a pretty good split between a lot of developers, whether we're talking North American, Japanese, Euro... And when I look for games that are simply "fine" and "fun" and widely appealing, I certainly expect to see local markets selling to their markets best. They know the terrain, they localize the appeal, they spend more marketing dollars, they have a more recognizable brand name... you name it.
So... um... for what purpose was this resurrected again?
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
Agreed.
Evil_Cloud
Veteran
thop said:
Ahem, it still sells loads... MGS3 was released a few weeks after Halo 2, NFSU2 and GTA: SA if I am not mistaken.
It's more the fault of the season: all the big games are released in about one month time.
Of course not, that's the "duh" part. The point is that tastes simply aren't the same. Tastes differ, licenses differ, genres differ... And as has been addressed before, gaming tastes shift and dilute, so it's mostly known licenses, bankable names, and easy-playing games that sell in the largest volumes from month to month.Magnum PI said:
I will agree that MGS3 should really be selling more. It might be caught up in a time of extra excitement from other major games (Halo 2, GTA:SA, Half-life 2, etc.), but even with some expected diluting (MGS sold 2.5 million or so in North America, and MGS2 around 2 million, so MGS3 I could certainly see dipping down to 1.5 million) it's not off to a rousing start. But you can never really tell just how an individual title is going to perform. Even major titles can get lost in the din, or not see the public's disinterest taking in that type of game taking over.
Blade said:
Hmmm... I think this is an over generalization. Just some companies that quickly come to mind: EA (and games like the Madden series) or Rare and the slew of quality games they made for the N64 have both had commercial and critical successes on consoles for years and years before the Xbox.
I would think it would be fair to say that both Japanese, North American, and even European developers have had their fair share of success on the consoles for many many years. Certain games/developers may not tailor to every individual's personal tastes, but I think it is a safe to say that long before the "past few years" OR the release of the "PC-like Xbox" that Western/European developers have had their fair share of critically, and commercially, successful console games.
This is not to put down games created by Japanese developers (Nintendo is one of my favorite game makers!), just noting that non-Japanese companies have done very well on the consoles for much longer than just the past few years.
I just finished MGS3, 22hrs. Good improvement from disasterous MGS2. More additions to gameplay and the story is less mess, its back to good heroism. Big Boss, The Boss and Ocelot are such memorable characters. After MGS3, I put Big Boss all over Solid Snake!
But usual problems of gameplay with jap devs. Their over intention to fuse movie angles with game. MGS3 is still lots better than MGS2, but still parts could be left alone for more seamless gameplay. Like the much hyped chase finale, it will be better if its one whole play thru and there are challenges taking down the guards and pursers. What it has is you cutting/loading in and out of the action, with bits and pieces of playing the actual chase, and for most part, its like glorify cutscenes, the enemies driven by quickly/easily and their attacks is like a scratch. Challenge is lacking in MGS3.
The best part of MGS3 is the middle where there are very few interruptions and you are left to play around. I like watching cutscenes but no gameplay interruptions please. I feel Kojima is best at action parts so should leave it as that. Becomes too much cheese when see him trying to add lengthy "emotional depths" or what you call it.
Also the camera really suck. Im glad he listens to me by putting MGS3 in wider areas and more action packed( remember when MGS fans laugh at such suggestions? ), should have done something much better than NES overhead camera.
So not surprise to see Kojima admission and poor MGS3 sales. Gamers were burnt by MGS2 sparodic gameplay and absurb storyline. MGS3 is better but what they see at glance, looks similar with clunky cameras and starting of MGS3 wouldnt help it.
But usual problems of gameplay with jap devs. Their over intention to fuse movie angles with game. MGS3 is still lots better than MGS2, but still parts could be left alone for more seamless gameplay. Like the much hyped chase finale, it will be better if its one whole play thru and there are challenges taking down the guards and pursers. What it has is you cutting/loading in and out of the action, with bits and pieces of playing the actual chase, and for most part, its like glorify cutscenes, the enemies driven by quickly/easily and their attacks is like a scratch. Challenge is lacking in MGS3.
The best part of MGS3 is the middle where there are very few interruptions and you are left to play around. I like watching cutscenes but no gameplay interruptions please. I feel Kojima is best at action parts so should leave it as that. Becomes too much cheese when see him trying to add lengthy "emotional depths" or what you call it.
Also the camera really suck. Im glad he listens to me by putting MGS3 in wider areas and more action packed( remember when MGS fans laugh at such suggestions?
), should have done something much better than NES overhead camera. So not surprise to see Kojima admission and poor MGS3 sales. Gamers were burnt by MGS2 sparodic gameplay and absurb storyline. MGS3 is better but what they see at glance, looks similar with clunky cameras and starting of MGS3 wouldnt help it.
yucks... need for speed at no.4, the game sucks, bad car models, bad textures, bad enviroment models, bad gameplay (is it simulation or arcade?) i have no idea why people love it... its like running around in some weird lego city... yes i'm running it max with a 6800gt. EA is the new acclaim.. no wrong... i'm still waiting for a new wing commander.... kilrath.... zzzzzzzzZZZZZ
JacksBleedingEyes
Regular
Well shit, was there as much hype over MGS3 as there was over Halo2 and GTA3SA?
Jhonny just chose the one chirstmass when the tables turned.
Anyway...good luck to the western devs, but so long as the Japanese make the consoles in reality they control the 'powa'. We will see what the next gen holds.
Jhonny just chose the one chirstmass when the tables turned.
Anyway...good luck to the western devs, but so long as the Japanese make the consoles in reality they control the 'powa'. We will see what the next gen holds.
Acert93 said:
Exactly. People trying to show that western dev rule the sales more than before usually point to GTA.
But GTA is made by the same company, which dominated the sales at the beginning of the 90's with Lemmings.
and Halo sales are not surprising, considering the sales of Golden Eye 7 years ago.
