Kinect price confirmed 150USD plus arcade model priced

[Arwin]

Typical trick on Amazon, charge .99 or so for a low price item, and then $12 shipping.

However they constantly say there's no difference in HDMI cables. But I ordered a cheap one from Monoprice, a 6 ft one and also a 3 ft. The 3 ft one has a very thick ribbon and is too short. However one day I couldn't get my Blu Ray player to connect to the TV with the new 6 ft cable. Sure enough switching to the 3 ft cable solved the problem.

So I'm not so sure about the whole "all HDMI cables are the same" thing.

That may be colored by distance being a big issue with HDMI cables though. Quality of signal goes down fast as the length of the cable increases. This is one of the big criticisms of HDMI cables when they were launched and one of the advantages of the new CAT-5e/6 based tech (which does not suffer this issue).

As for the 'trick', it's a matter of ordering the cable along with something else?

 

[Shifty Geezer]

However they constantly say there's no difference in HDMI cables. But I ordered a cheap one from Monoprice, a 6 ft one and also a 3 ft.
...
So I'm not so sure about the whole "all HDMI cables are the same" thing.

I have two HDMI cables permenantly plugged into the TVs, for moving the PS3 between upstairs and down, and the upstairs one sometimes loses the signal and I get fuzz or blackout for a moment. I think it's a lose connection rather than cable fault, or it does seem more common when the PS3 fan is blowing hot air on the cable. However, it shows the difference between digital and analogue signals, and why talk of higher-quality cables is crap. When HDMI fails, it fails absolutely. Otherwise if it's getting the signal, the receiver is getting an exact reproduction of what the transmitter sent. If someone's TV is getting a picture over HDMI, changing to 'high end' cables won't have any benefit at all.

I also wonder if those high-end cables actually are manufactured differently? The producers must be aware they're selling a con-job, so why bother spending more on creation (other than cosmetics to make them look better quality) when it's the price people are selecting them for?

 

[Scott_Arm]

Well, in theory a thicker cable would make it more difficult for the cable to bend or kink in such a way that the internal fiber optic strands would be in danger of breaking. I don't think there's many places that make the fiber optic strands, so those should almost univerally be of relatively equal quality. The only differences will be in how well you can protect those strands.

Regards,
SB

HDMI doesn't use fiber optics. It's all stranded electrical conductors, which are incredibly flexible. Any stiffness in the cable is from shielding. Well, I'd be amazed if they used solid electrical conductors.

There is absolutely no reason to use expensive cables. Digital signalling allows for bit errors to be corrected, but even cheap cables have incredibly low bit error rates. HDMI cables do not suffer gradual visual degradation like analog signals. If you had a poor quality cable, built to an extremely long distance, say 20m, the signal strength might be too low, causing bit errors at a high rate that could not be corrected. This would cause massive issues with audio and video. The thing is, any cheap 15m cable, or maybe even 20m cable would not fall into this category.

 

[joker454]

I have over a dozen hdmi cables that I bought years ago at $1.97 each and never had any problems with them. This is with multiple types of devices including consoles, pc's, satellite receivers, video cameras, a/v receivers, tv's, etc. Needless to say I'm not a believer in expensive hdmi cables.

 

[RobertR1]

Give your money to charity if you must part ways with it it but don't do it on high end HDMI cables plesae.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

HDMI doesn't use fiber optics. It's all stranded electrical conductors, which are incredibly flexible. Any stiffness in the cable is from shielding. Well, I'd be amazed if they used solid electrical conductors.

There is absolutely no reason to use expensive cables. Digital signalling allows for bit errors to be corrected, but even cheap cables have incredibly low bit error rates. HDMI cables do not suffer gradual visual degradation like analog signals. If you had a poor quality cable, built to an extremely long distance, say 20m, the signal strength might be too low, causing bit errors at a high rate that could not be corrected. This would cause massive issues with audio and video. The thing is, any cheap 15m cable, or maybe even 20m cable would not fall into this category.

Ah in that case, the chances of a broken wire will be far less than that of a broken optical strand. Thinner, more flexible, cables (not bringing cost into this) will still be more prone to situations that could, over time, lead to wire strands in the cable breaking. It's not uncommon with wired mice for example which also use an all digital signal.

Granted, when properly setup, there should be no movement in an HDMI cable after intial setup so it would be a non-issue in those cases. But if people move their consoles a lot, or if the cable is where a child or pet could reach it, or where it could be stepped on, it can be a concern.

Regards,
SB

 

[Shifty Geezer]

how much movement is needed to cause metal fatigue and fractures? I'd have thought it'd be a lot, such that you'd need to wrangle the wires often to get a fault. Whenever I've had a dodgy cable, it's invariably been the connectors causing trouble. I've never had a cable show issues in a wired mouse or wired headphones where the wire is treated with general disrespect. Except when the wire's been repeatedly run over by a wheelie chair!

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Not sure but I've had it happen with numerous quality mice (Logitech and Microsoft) back when I did competitive FPS play before I switched entirely to wireless mice. Have done the same with 2 audio headphones (one Sennheiser and one Sony).

It does generally require quite a lot of use, but occasionally you can just get a bad quality cable. A friend of mine had a mouse go bad due to a frayed wire shorting out inside the cable in the first 2 months. You can easily tell when this is the case with USB mice because you can just wiggle the wire (without moving the connector) and you'll lose and regain connection. With some persistence you can isolate where it is and if you "really" wanted to could repair it yourself. Some people will also mistakenly think it's the connector as they'll unplug and replug the mouse and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. But what's actually happening is the wire is or isn't connecting/shorting out in the cable itself. This isn't to say that the connector can't be the cause, but in my experience that's a bit more rare than damaged wires in the cable.

Back before USB, troubleshooting it with a PS/2 mouse wasn't nearly so easy.

Regards,
SB

 

[NavNucST3]

Well, kind of. I'm curious what sort of success you see for this thing. As I've snarked before, I think that post-release actual discussion of these devices success will be impossible, since it'll all resolve to 'it did good enough' (except for those people who will think that anything short of Wii 2008-2009 holiday sales means failure). My own guess is 10 million kinects by the end of 2012, WW. No idea about Move -- I'm probably getting it, but I'm not sure why anyone ELSE would. (On the other hand, my tastes are not the majority's, so what do I know?)

And yeah, I should have added: 'all predictions are off if the Wii price-drops, or Kinect is supply limited'. I don't think either of those will happen. I also framed it in terms of this year's holidays exactly because the Wii looks like it's in a slump, so we might see lowish numbers, comparatively. I guess what I'm wondering is: do you think Kinect's performance will be within the same ballpark as the Wii's?

I'm on the record that I don't think so, not at all (I think $150 is far too steep, I don't think the software is there, I don't think the Wii upgrade is real, I think the Wii will keep most of its mindshare) but I'm starting to consider the possibility that I might be wrong based on these anecdotes. I don't think it's a particularly real possibility, but it's a possibility.

After looking at the NPD numbers and seeing how well the Wii did and how its numbers seem to be stable from last year, now I'm thinking they still have a very good holiday regardless of price movement. I think if somehow Microsoft can market or co-market Dance Central and Xbox Live DLC as a reason to pay more for the 360 Kinect Bundle vs the Wii and Just Dance 1 / 2, I think they could match Wii holiday numbers.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Ah in that case, the chances of a broken wire will be far less than that of a broken optical strand. Thinner, more flexible, cables (not bringing cost into this) will still be more prone to situations that could, over time, lead to wire strands in the cable breaking. It's not uncommon with wired mice for example which also use an all digital signal.

Granted, when properly setup, there should be no movement in an HDMI cable after intial setup so it would be a non-issue in those cases. But if people move their consoles a lot, or if the cable is where a child or pet could reach it, or where it could be stepped on, it can be a concern.

Regards,
SB

Stranded wire has more durability than just about any other type of cabling I can think of. Solid wire is certainly much much worse for breaks, and fiber has some durability, but breaks very easily when stepped on, rolled over or bent at too tight a radius. The new ClearCurve fiber from Corning might be pretty good (I'll see soon when I get my hands on it) but stranded wire is still far the most durable.

 

[RobertR1]

After looking at the NPD numbers and seeing how well the Wii did and how its numbers seem to be stable from last year, now I'm thinking they still have a very good holiday regardless of price movement. I think if somehow Microsoft can market or co-market Dance Central and Xbox Live DLC as a reason to pay more for the 360 Kinect Bundle vs the Wii and Just Dance 1 / 2, I think they could match Wii holiday numbers.

Putting their muscle behind Dance Central is probably the key to Kinect this fall. I hope they're smart enough to see that. If they focus on their games only (Joyride, Sports, Adventures), I don't know how much of an impact it'll have with the casuals.

 

[NavNucST3]

Putting their muscle behind Dance Central is probably the key to Kinect this fall. I hope they're smart enough to see that. If they focus on their games only (Joyride, Sports, Adventures), I don't know how much of an impact it'll have with the casuals.

I think Adventures were it a stand-alone would do well but I see Dance Central as a 500K+ opening NPD.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

EU release date has been set at November 10th, at the confirmed RRP of £129.99/€149.99, including Kinect Adventures.

 

[NavNucST3]

Putting their muscle behind Dance Central is probably the key to Kinect this fall. I hope they're smart enough to see that. If they focus on their games only (Joyride, Sports, Adventures), I don't know how much of an impact it'll have with the casuals.

If this does not sell by the bucket loads...

 

[obonicus]

If this does not sell by the bucket loads...

It should be part of the Kinect bundle, honestly, or have a bundle just for Dance Central. Otherwise I think the price is still too onerous for most people.

 

[patsu]

They are selling to a larger pool of general consumers (so more rich people in that base). So $150 may not be a problem if MS can appeal to them

 

[Shifty Geezer]

If this does not sell by the bucket loads...

Yes, that's definitely a killer app that plays absolutely to Kinect's strengths.

 

[patsu]

Yap, MS is also smart in targeting female for Kinect. All those exposures in Oprah, Justin Biber, Macy are made for them. They also don't have much preconception about controller latency; they are big on online social activities, but may be underserved.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

Yes, it'll be important for MS that they don't lose their way after launch and not properly support the new demographic they are attempting to add.

They'll need to continue releasing and refining those games for the casual and non-gamer types. One fear I have is that next year if/when MS starts to release titles for the "core" crowd that all the new people brought in by the Kinect launch get kind of lost in the shuffle.

Regards,
SB

 

[dobwal]

I highly doubt both Move or Kinect will be successful enough to the point of extending this generation for an appreciable amount of time.

I doubt that success of Kinect and Move as seen by the manufacturer themselves as based solely on adoption. I think the reason why Kinect's price is rather high is because MS is trying to drive down cost of technology that will ultimately end up in the next Xbox and the same goes for Sony. If Kinect can recoup R&D and startup production costs using the 360 platform then those cost don't have to amortize over the life of the next xbox.

Kinect and Move are just version 1.0s meant to help drive down intergration costs of the next gen consoles with 2.0 technology.