Killzone Prerendered E3 Trailer Talk

[HappyBread]

Jeremy Hardin might like to read his contract a little closer. His rationale for giving public access to his portfolio was that it "appeared" now to be common knowledge that the KZ trailer was prerendered. I don't know if that would absolve a NDA..

Hehe, I've posted all the info where the developers at Guerrilla lurk/post (thanks dubert), if he's broke his NDA, I hope he gets his ass fired.

As for the trailer itself, I think almost everyone here has pretty much known and accepted for some time now that the trailer was prerendered.

No doubt, the game director himself said it was prerendered to show people what to expect when playing the final game, uk.playstation.com had an interview with Jan-Bart Van Beek - go and search the site, just put "Killzone PS3" and it should come up. I'm confident they'll match it though, but all we can do is wait.

 

[Farid]

We're so down the OT road that I will create a new thread I think

I pruned the thread from the OT posts about posters's grammatical, syntax and spelling errors.

Actually Jeremy does mention LightWave3D quite a few times in this page...

Yes. But you can use LW, or any other software solution to create your assets, animations and camera work for your game. The thing is he does not mention the renderer.

After the overwhelming response to the video, don't you think it was quite a bit unfair that neither the true creators, nor the companies supplying the tools were able to take the right credit for their hard work - just because Sony decided to capitalize on the false belief that it was a realtime PS3 demo?

Business is not about being fair or not.
Sony/Guerilla are the customers, they discussed a contract, all parties involved agreed on it, Sony/Guerilla paid, and that's it.
If someone disagreed with the deal, he shouldn't have accepted the job.

How can you say that with a straight face, when people just continue to pop up and mention that it was realtime?

I think he was refering to the grown-up/sane posters, not the fan-persons.

 

[Tesselator]

Well to me this is a very troublesome thread. Not for the fact that
you are being told that Sony cheats on their game video preview
presentations. I actually don't know of any other company that does
this. I have only seen Sony do it - "It's a Sony!". I personally do not
like or dislike Sony any more or less than any other game console
developer. I do dislike their products more than others but that is
simply for the raw specifications of the consul unit's they produce.

• PS2 Vrs GC Instance 1
• PS2 Vrs GC Instance 2

If Sony does indeed seem to attract trolls more than any other
company I would have to say that the above links are indeed point
and parcel to the reasons why. This does not mean that the Sony
PlayStation and the Sony PlayStation 2 are not fun. They are fun - I
know I own both machines! With the exception of the XBox and the
XBox 360 I own every popular console ever made - really no bragging
rights there as I'm an old fart who started out writing games on the
CBM PET and the Vic 20.

I think Sony cheating on their videos is extremely bad but no one has
appointed me judge over that aspect in their long history of
advertisement campaigning. And they have been doing this sort
of thing for a very long time now. Additionally I do not think anyone
here is acting as a whistle blower in a capacity that would likely get
anyone in trouble.

Sony does this. We know it - they know it - if pressed officially they
would likely admitt it and excuse themselves - case closed.

I do not believe that Mr. Jeremy H. has violated his NDA if in fact
there ever was one to begin with. I know for a fact dubert has not
violated his. Telling you why I know this for a fact would indeed be
a violation on my part however.

But all this as I say, is not what is troublesome about this thread to
me. What is troublesome to me is that a professional person from
the inner world of CG cared enough to come here and clue you (the
consumer) in as to what exactly is going on - and has been going on
for a very long time and he was called a liar. His professional
credentials were questioned. His personality and character was
questioned. And he was generally treated very second class. How I
wonder, does this forum expect to attract professional or high level
users when they are treated as such upon encounter? I don't know
any of you others here but I do know when someone shows up to my
forum and delivers a nice tip I accept it graciously and use that
information for what value it holds to me in the relevant topic being
discussed. In this particular case it would tip me off to the fact that
I need to actually go down to the store and see these games running
myself before I commit to purchasing the equipment - a tip all of us
would be very wise to follow when purchasing any equipment.

On the subject of this particular game being able to pull off the quality
and effects that are presented in the preview demo video of the same
all I can say is - even toward the end of the PlayStation 3 product
cycle, there simply is not a chance unless it's in-game video streams
being "played back". Even the XBox 360 with a much higher spec will
not be able to deliver that quality and effect in real time. I don't
know exactly how many years we're talking but that particular quality
and effect in real time computational format is at least a few away.
​

 

[Farid]

...

• PS2 Vrs GC Instance 1
• PS2 Vrs GC Instance 2

If Sony does indeed seem to attract trolls more than any other
company I would have to say that the above links are indeed point
and parcel to the reasons why.

Sony attract trolling behavior, because the Capcom port of RE4 from a superior and newer hardware, the GC, to an older and inferior one, the PS2 is not perfect and has lower resolution textures?

That's a very interesting point of view, I must say.

 

[macabre]

I don`t get what RE4 has to do with pre-rendered trailers...seems Sony attract both ******s and haters alike.

 

[Tesselator]

Sony attract trolling behavior, because the Capcom port of RE4 from a superior and newer hardware, the GC, to an older and inferior one, the PS2 is not perfect and has lower resolution textures?

That's a very interesting point of view, I must say.

Yes, you're right to question the comparison. The two consoles are
some months apart in their release - I don't know exactly how many
18? less? My point however was simply that I personally liked the NGC
more than the PS2 for the graphics it delivers on price point given
the same game software. It was not intended to be a statement
to the affect that the PS2 was misrepresenting anything through
advertising or that the PS2 should for some reason, be as good as
the NGC.
​

 

[thatdude90210]

As for the trailer itself, I think almost everyone here has pretty much known and accepted for some time now that the trailer was prerendered.

31% in a poll here in this very same forum didn't think it was prerendered... just a couple of weeks ago.

 

[zidane1strife]

Well to me this is a very troublesome thread. Not for the fact that
you are being told that Sony cheats on their game video preview
presentations. I actually don't know of any other company that does
this. I have only seen Sony do it - "It's a Sony!". I personally do not
like or dislike Sony any more or less than any other game console
developer. I do dislike their products more than others but that is
simply for the raw specifications of the consul unit's they produce.
​

Cough xbx robo girl cough gc cg trailers cough... cough n64 pr cough doa4?

The ps2 despite initially using the .25m process, iirc, completely obliterated the dreamcast which used the same process, and was able to compete with h/w launched 18months later on a far more advanced process and on some aspects surpassed such and even pc h/w released years later, despite having a bare bones gpu due to lacking the foresight so as to include a more featured gpu. To this day character models in the pc and even some on nextgen consoles are seen as better but not considered mind-blowingly better than the best ps2 had to offer.

Now the situation repeats itself again, but this time they've a fully-featured gpu... will the dc-to-ps2 gap repeat itself again? or will it be bigger? Only time will tell.

As for killzone, the killzone trailer had some textures that would be shameful for a realtime game application, and that's enough to tell me that at least some aspects are more than doable.​

 

[liverkick]

I think Sony cheating on their videos is extremely bad but no one has
appointed me judge over that aspect in their long history of advertisement campaigning. And they have been doing this sort of thing for a very long time now. ...Sony does this. We know it - they know it - if pressed officially they would likely admitt it and excuse themselves - case closed.

This lovely little slice of indignation and incredulity specifically toward SCE is a running theme among certain circles (particularly within this forum), but Ive struggled to justify the source of it. This focused fear and loathing primarily toward SCE PR doesnt seem to make much sense when compared to their peers. The PR game is pretty much a wash when it comes to the total Sum of Bullshit, yet SCE is somehow characterized as uniquely offensive. Id personally love to see one of these indignant voices come up with a timeline of all the sordid, deceptive and manipulative PR tactics SCE has used "over all these years" that somehow make them so amazingly subversive in comparison to their fellow competitors. It would help outline what exactly has made them so special to them (besides being on top that is), as well as underline the veracity of such claims (or lack there of).

It was not intended to be a statement to the affect that the PS2 was misrepresenting anything through advertising or that the PS2 should for some reason, be as good as the NGC.

Perhaps something was lost in translation, but thats pretty much the impression I got...

If Sony does indeed seem to attract trolls more than any other company I would have to say that the above links are indeed pointand parcel to the reasons why.

 

[blakjedi]

That'd be Newtek, developer of Lightwave.

Ahh the VideoToaster rises again!

 

[nelg]

so I'd like to know what I'm talking about.

So would I.

 

[Tesselator]

This lovely little slice of indignation and incredulity specifically toward SCE is a running theme among certain circles (particularly within this forum), but Ive struggled to justify the source of it. This focused fear and loathing primarily toward SCE PR doesnt seem to make much sense when compared to their peers. The PR game is pretty much a wash when it comes to the total Sum of Bullshit, yet SCE is somehow characterized as uniquely offensive. Id personally love to see one of these indignant voices come up with a timeline of all the sordid, deceptive and manipulative PR tactics SCE has used "over all these years" that somehow make them so amazingly subversive in comparison to their fellow competitors. It would help outline what exactly has made them so special to them (besides being on top that is), as well as underline the veracity of such claims (or lack there of).



Perhaps something was lost in translation, but thats pretty much the impression I got...

Yes allow me to alleviate any suspicions or false impressions you
might have had. I own these machines but I do not have feelings for
them nor for the companies that created them. If you read my
sentence carefully it starts out with the word "if" as I actually have
no idea whether or not Sony attracts more trolls than any other
company. I'm really not into reading about games in online forums.
I'm very into playing them and being amazed at the works some of
these developers create.

Another person earlier in the thread implied that Sony (or the
discussion of and about Sony) seems to attract trolls or at least
bring out the worst in people during such discussion. I merely
implied that if in fact that is true that it might be due to customer
dissatisfaction. I then pointed to two specific examples where I
myself was dissatisfied with the same game software running on
two different consuls that I believe compete for the same market
share at approximately the same price point . Those being the
Sony PlayStation2 and the Nintendo Game Cube.

I was not implying anything about chip process die technology,
system architectural design implied for actual, the condition or
state of trolish behavior in online forums, the practices with which
Sony conducts its advertisement campaigns, nor any gaps between
generational hardware releases.

Forced to consider it I would have to agree with you about the
current state of PR among the various console developers. The
sole exception may however, be the misrepresentation of real-time
computational video graphics by quietly even if unintentionally,
allowing the public to believe they are seeing real time when in
fact it is not. That is my impression and my impression only. I
have seen Sony do this on many occasions. I personally have not
seen another company to so. Just one man's impression based on
his (my) very limited experiences. Again however, I must reiterate
that I do not have "feelings" for or against these companies. I do
not form "opinions" about their behavior. They are what they are.
They do what they do.
​

 

[centerofadmiration]

Where exactly has Sony lied recently? The developers of most of those games have come out and talked about those games. Even on these very forums. All of them say the games are possible and will be enhanced throughout the lifespan of the PS3.

So your saying also that Hideo Kojima is a liar, Bandai, Insomniac Games, Ninja Theory, and a billion other developers are flat out liars with what they have shown for the PS3 thus far. Even at TGS?

I'd like to see a game on the Xbox that is even remotely close to Toy Story 2. Because that is what Bill Gates said the Xbox was capable of and not only that, but " what they were approaching " in graphical accomplishment.

Nintendo also lied to the public when they said the N64 would be as powerful as a supercomputer and then showcased demos of games using CGI Workstations under the table on stage.

So I think Sony has been given a bad rep mainly from forums, and not from anything else. Whereas both Nintendo and Microsoft have done ALOT worse then Sony over the years but never get called for it.

 

[Tesselator]

So your saying also that Hideo Kojima is a liar, Bandai, Insomniac Games, Ninja Theory, and a billion other developers are flat out liars with what they have shown for the PS3 thus far. Even at TGS?

I will say this and no more: If any developer, person, company,
or other entity tells you, me, or the press, that either the XBox 360
or the Sony PlayStation3 is capable or will ever be capable in their
respective product cycles, of reproducing in its entirety, the video
effects shown in Jeremy's footage in any form of real time computational
delivery on a raster display device of any size resolution they are
perfectly mistaken.

The reason why whether honest mistake for flat out lie, I will leave
up to others to determine.

 

[weaksauce]

You're all liars! Stop it! STOP!

Nah ok, I got owned. I guess I'll countinue with my life from here.

Or lets just change subject, what do you think about motorstorm?

 

[Tesselator]

Nintendo also lied to the public when they said the N64 would be as powerful as a supercomputer and then showcased demos of games using CGI Workstations under the table on stage.

So I think Sony has been given a bad rep mainly from forums, and not from anything else. Whereas both Nintendo and Microsoft have done ALOT worse then Sony over the years but never get called for it.

Point taken. And actually I do remember something about that
Nintendo fiasco you mentioned above.
​

 

[BlueTsunami]

God people, wait a few more months. Were almost there. I have a feeling the internet is going to implode when Motorstorm and Killzone 2 come out.

 

[pso]

Where exactly has Sony lied recently? The developers of most of those games have come out and talked about those games. Even on these very forums. All of them say the games are possible and will be enhanced throughout the lifespan of the PS3.

So your saying also that Hideo Kojima is a liar, Bandai, Insomniac Games, Ninja Theory, and a billion other developers are flat out liars with what they have shown for the PS3 thus far. Even at TGS?

I'd like to see a game on the Xbox that is even remotely close to Toy Story 2. Because that is what Bill Gates said the Xbox was capable of and not only that, but " what they were approaching " in graphical accomplishment.

Nintendo also lied to the public when they said the N64 would be as powerful as a supercomputer and then showcased demos of games using CGI Workstations under the table on stage.

So I think Sony has been given a bad rep mainly from forums, and not from anything else. Whereas both Nintendo and Microsoft have done ALOT worse then Sony over the years but never get called for it.

Not recently but at E3 when Jack Tretton of Executive Vice President of SCEA blatantly lied about the Killzone demo; calling it "real" and "gameplay".

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748475/vids_1.html

Here's how the question of the Killzone demo was asked and the answer from Jack:

"Interviewer: Now I know that there were some other demos that were shown there. There was Killzone, a lot of people were excited about that. People were wondering though, you know, is it real, was it CGI, it looked so good you know, what was, what was the sense from you? Is this computer smoke and mirrors?

Jack Tretton: Its definitely real, I guess we're pretty good at keeping secrets because the dev kits were out there the dev kits are very intuitive so people did some incredible things. And that's one thing Ted wanted to make sure everybody understood; that is real gameplay everybody's seeing up there. And I think the other advantage is...

Interviewer: So it is gameplay, all that stuff is all gameplay?

Jack Tretton: It is gameplay.


I still can't believe people have forgot or overlooked Jack's answer regarding the Killzone trailer on G4TV.

 

[weaksauce]

Not recently but at E3 when Jack Tretton of Executive Vice President of SCEA blatantly lied about the Killzone demo; calling it "real" and "gameplay".

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/748/748475/vids_1.html

Here's how the question of the Killzone demo was asked and the answer from Jack:

"Interviewer: Now I know that there were some other demos that were shown there. There was Killzone, a lot of people were excited about that. People were wondering though, you know, is it real, was it CGI, it looked so good you know, what was, what was the sense from you? Is this computer smoke and mirrors?

Jack Tretton: Its definitely real, I guess we're pretty good at keeping secrets because the dev kits were out there the dev kits are very intuitive so people did some incredible things. And that's one thing Ted wanted to make sure everybody understood; that is real gameplay everybody's seeing up there. And I think the other advantage is...

Interviewer: So it is gameplay, all that stuff is all gameplay?

Jack Tretton: It is gameplay.


I still can't believe people have forgot or overlooked Jack's answer regarding the Killzone trailer on G4TV.

That was a misquote. Ted is in Insomniac, I-8.

 

[pso]

That was a misquote. Ted is in Insomniac, I-8.

Misquote? I don't know about that. You could download the video from IGN and fast forward to 3:40 mark and he basically answered the question he was giving about Killzone directly.

Edit: Anyways, it doesn't really matter now. At the time when I first saw the live interview, I found his answer funny.