joint Nintendo-NEC console?

[megadrive0088]

just want to know where ATI is. I'm sure they're apart of this:

http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cg...ddle=ad_frame2_technology&s=APfl3ERX3TkVDLCBO

NEC, Nintendo in Talks on Chip for Next Generation Game Console
By Yoshifumi Takemoto

Tokyo, Dec. 13 (Bloomberg) -- NEC Corp. and Nintendo Co. are in talks to develop a chip for Nintendo's next generation video game console to replace Nintendo's GameCube and compete with Sony Corp.'s planned new game system, two NEC executives said. Engineers at NEC Electronics Corp., Japan's second biggest chipmaker spun off from NEC in November, and Nintendo, the world's No.2 maker of video game consoles, are discussing the possibility of co-developing a system chip to speed up control of graphics. NEC Electronics and Nintendo have been partners since they co- developed a system chip for GameCube consoles. NEC Electronics has not officially decided whether it will supply chips for Nintendo's next generation consoles. Global shipments of the GameCube, which debuted in September of 2001 in Japan, totaled 6.7 million units as of September, behind the 41.6 million units of Sony's PlayStation 2 shipped as of September. The PlayStation 2 debuted in March 2000. Sony is rushing to develop its next generation console to replace PlayStation 2 and Nintendo is under pressure to come up with a competitor. Sony's video game unit, Sony Computer Entertainment Inc., Toshiba Corp. and International Business Machines Corp. are developing system chips which may be used for video games as well as digital television

 

[PC-Engine]

.......... ..........

 

[Magnum PI]

maybe the guys pretending that nintendo gamecube will be the last nintendo console will finally stop telling this nonsense.

 

[PC-Engine]

maybe the guys pretending that nintendo gamecube will be the last nintendo console will finally stop telling this nonsense.

 

[Megadrive1988]

Also, backup from IGNCube:


GameCube Successor in Development
Nintendo collaborates with NEC.

December 13, 2002 - Bloomberg is reporting that Nintendo is planning
to collaborate with electronics giant NEC on the creation of the
GameCube's next-generation hardware successor. The home console,
which sources have indicated could debut in 2005 against Sony's
PlayStation 3, is still without an official title or codename.
NEC previously supplied the graphics chip for Sega's Dreamcast
and Nintendo's GameCube, and has recently invested 40 billion yen
into the creation of a new production factory in Kumamoto, Japan.

NEC is working on developing a system LSI that would serve as the core
of the new game console.

The continued Nintendo alliance with NEC comes in response to Sony
and Toshiba's stronghold on the videogame market, according to Bloomberg.

We will have more on this news soon. Stay tuned.

 

[PC-Engine]

I wonder if NEC will also be manufacturing the CPU...It would be pretty sweet to have a 30 GFLOPS single core CPU at 1 GHz with 8 MB of cache.

Do you guys think Nintendo will be going with ATI again? I mean the GPU in the GCN isn't really ATI tech before ATI bought Art-X. What's the possiblility that GCN will be based on PowerVR Series 8 with eDRAM? or maybe even something from Bitboys Oy? NEC also has a majority stake in SGI Japan.

 

[cybamerc]

Whatever the company the name of the company is, be it SGI, ATI or ArtX, the gfx subsystem has been designed by the same group of core designers for the last two generations. Unless some of those ppl have migrated to NEC I find it doubtful that Nintendo would choose them over ATI. Unless of course, Nintendo is considering going in a completely different direction.

 

[megadrive0088]

wow, I don't know, PC Engine.

well, 30 GFLOPs doesn't sound like a alot when you concider GameCube
has 10.5 GFLOPs total, between Geko and Flipper. Plus, The PS3 will
have, at the very very least, 1 TFLOP, if not more. but who would provide
the CPU? if it's NEC, they have MIPs, or don't they. I think it's pretty
dicey with Nintendo and IBM right now, with IBM working with Sony
and Toshiba on PS3/CELL.

I would concider ATI as the first choice for graphics. the ArtX/ATI union
is a good one. Flipper was fantastic for its transistor count. I'd concider
PowerVR the next choice. perhaps Series 7 or Series 8 could be a
contender to ATI's R600 and R700. I still think that ATI will provide the
design for the graphics portion of GC2. they have ArtX, the people who
started ArtX had the key people who designed the RCP of Nintendo64. I
believe Nintendo will select them again, thus ATI.

Basicly, the alliances for the next generation are all but drawn up now.

Sony-Toshiba-IBM: Playstation 3
MS-Nvidia-Intel or AMD: XBox 2
Nintendo-NEC-Panasonic-ATI: GC2

w/ the possibly that IBM, Hitachi, PowerVR could be with Nintendo

 

[PC-Engine]

Well 30 GFLOPS for a single core CPU alone is pretty good IMO especially with 8 MB of cache. Then you have the VS/PS in the GPU so it would be adequate. I'm positive the CPU in Xbox won't be anyware near 30 GFLOPS, but it's ok that's where the VS comes in. NEC does have a MIPS license but they also have their own cpu designs. Their vector cpu cores aren't used in the Earth Simulator because it's underpowered. As a matter of fact, it's the reigning world champ with regards to floating point operations per clock

 

[megadrive0088]

well if we are talking 30 GFLOPs per core that's a whole new
ballgame if we're talking multi core CPU. if ATI designs an uber-GPU
with say, 16-32 Vertex Shaders, that could be formidable against the
EE3/GS3 of PS3 i suppose. The next set of game consoles will all
no doubt push over 1 billion polygons/sec. maybe 10 billion if Sony is
to be believed (if PS2 does 10 million in real-world games and if PS3
actually ends up at 1000x PS2, that is) - still, even 1 billion/sec is nothing
to scoff at--that would still be 100x this generation.

*imagines a Rogue Leader game on GC2 with graphics that are almost
indistinguishable from the CGI in the special edition films*

 

[PC-Engine]

Yeah I think the next gen consoles will be so close with regards to performance that it's not going to make any difference in realword situations anyway. Of course having the biggest and baddest theoretical numbers and specs would make their marketing departments salivate like a pack of hungry dogs

*imagines a Rouge Leader game on GC2 with graphics that are almost
indistinguishable from the CGI in the special edition films*

Yeah and Factor 5 can use the actual ILM high polygon equivalent NURBS based models too, helping to lesson development time.

 

[zurich]

Xbox2 will use Itanium!

 

[megadrive0088]

Yeah I think the next gen consoles will be so close with regards to performance that it's not going to make any difference in realword situations anyway. Of course having the biggest and baddest theoretical numbers and specs would make their marketing departments salivate like a pack of hungry dogs

no doubt, that WILL be the case with Sony and MS for PS3 and XB2.

Nintendo though, will be it's usual conservative self. they will claim
600 million to 1.2 billion polygons per second with GC2...assuming GC2
is 100x GameCube's conservative specs.

 

[PC-Engine]

Yeah GCN2 will also probably be cheaper in price too

I'm just really curious about the type of storage media though.

 

[megadrive0088]

Perhaps Nintendo will finally see the light and let Panasonic make GC2
with Blue-Ray or a similar type of HD-DVD format. one that can play/record and do anything that PS3 and XB2 media can do.

 

[PC-Engine]

Oh I'm sure they can, I just don't know if it'll be cost effective in 2005 maybe who knows...

 

[megadrive0088]

even FMD should be cost effective by 2005-2006, but it's all relative.
if an alliance wants it to happen, they will try to make it happen. if it's
not in their interest, it won't, so we'll see.

 

[PC-Engine]

FMD would be really sweet...100 layer 4.72" disc with 1 Terabyte capacity using blue laser

 

[V3]

1 billion poly/s is expected progression for 2005, considering GeforceFX going to sit at 350 million/s next year.

But Nintendo next gen won't come out till like 2008 or some where there.

 

[Megadrive1988]

2008? naaa, I think it'll be 2006.
the article from IGN even says it could be out by 2005 to meet
Playstation3. but i believe Nintendo will follow their 5 year cycle.
that means '06. by 2008, PS3 and XB2 will have been out for
2-3 years. Nintendo will not allow that.

As for polygon pushing power, GFFX pushes 375M@500 MHz,
R300 does 325M@325 MHz. this will only increase greatly in 2003.

R350 taped out several weeks ago, and is set for a spring introduction.
it will shatter the 400M barrier @ only 400 MHz (it'll probably clock higher)
assuming there are no additional Vertex Shader units in R350. I think
even R300 shatter's the 400M barrier @ 400 MHz since it does 1Mpps per clock.

NV35, the refresh of GFFX, will likely be out fall 2003 with perhaps
double the polygon performance of GFFX. Nvidia doubled or tripled
the polygon performance from NV20 to NV25. (twice the vertex
shaders + 50% clock increase) it should at least double it from
NV30 to NV35.

then there is the R400 from ATI which is set for summer introduction/fall
release. it will be a new architecture. ATI has been doubling the
complexity of each new generation from R100 to R200 to R300. no
reason to think R400 won't continue this progression. the polygon
difference between R200 and R300 was something like 70M to 325M.
if the jump from R300 to R400 is similar, R400 could shatter
1 billion vertices per second in 2003. easily. while verts/sec is
somewhat different than polys/sec, the two are almost interchangable.
If people think that is too much to expect, that I am jumping the gun,
well, i'm not making anything up. this is progression. it is what
is reasonably expected given advancements of the recent past, and
continued fierce competition between ATI-Nvidia

if 1 billion verts/sec or even slightly under is reached in 2003, then
3-5B or more could easily be attainable by 2005. that said, Nintendo
will obviously cut corners on its hardware to save cost per unit. still,
all three consoles will exceed 1 billion verts/polys per second easily.