Japan Sales Thread *renamed

[TheChefO]

Wii = the next ps2

What could be a problem is the trend:



If things are going on that way PS3 in Japan + NA will be lower than 360 in Japan + NA while in March PS3 was higher, meaning it will be harder in all cases for the PS3 to get a better spot.

The trend is interesting.

Currently, if Wii stays on the same path, it will be the repeat of ps2 by selling 64million units in US and Japan alone in the next five years. EU will probably post similar numbers to US/JP. With each of these regions posting roughly 6.4million/yr (x 5yrs = 32m) bringing the total to 96 million WW if current sales trends continue and if EU sales are similar to US/JP.

Interesting indeed.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

You really have no clue how difficult getting a Wii is these days in the states. Paul for example sent me a link to an online store that had just received around 10 Wii's. I checked the online link maybe 20 minutes later and they were gone, with a notice that they had no clue when they'd get another shipment in.

Maybe Wii's are really easy to find in Finland, but they certainly are not here, online or brick and mortar.

Did you read what I wrote?
Your unwillingness to back order it is the problem here. I do understand very well that it is hard to get one from stores or to see a online site having them in stock. It should have been relatively easy to back order it ages ago and receive a unit well before today though.

 

[Natoma]

Actually, the most exposed 1st party game would probably have to be Gran Turismo, given it's the only game besides GTA that ever came close to the success the Mario franchise has enjoyed over the years.

Well I was talking about # of sequels, but if we're going in terms of sales then good enough.

Re: "Standing the test of time like Nintendo IPs have" - I'm sorry, but that's something that's purely subjective and very debatable. I know it's some kind of belief that Nintendo's 1st party games are better than Sony's or Microsofts, probably due to the fact that's all Nintendo was ever good at selling the last 2 generations (...and 3rd parties complained about) - it for sure isn't all that big of a point to all none Nintendo owners outthere.

Is it really debatable? It's the same context as saying that Square's IPs have stood the test of time far better than Sony or MS's 1st party titles. Sega's have not however, with the decline of their Sonic franchise, the near obliteration of the Phantasy Star series, etc.

BTW: God of War is another excellent 1st party game/franchise. To play devils advocat, how many games from Nintendo can you name that don't have Mario in the title? Zelda's one - what else?

Mario, Metroid, Zelda, Super Smash Bros, Mario Kart, WaveRace, PilotWings, F-Zero, Pokemon, Mother, Pikmin. Off the top of my head.

 

[Natoma]

Final Fantasy, Gran Turismo, MGS have all been around for at least 3 generations now, over 10 years, and they top the US sales charts.

Ok, FF and MGS aren't Sony 1st party IPs. Those games are Square and Konami. I'm not talking games that are exclusives. I'm talking about games developed by Sony.

Also, just because an IP was created last generation, and hasn't 'stood the test of time', doesn't mean they aren't sought after system sellers this generation. R&C, Grand Theft Auto, SOCOM, Kingdom Hearts all sold over 2million in the US alone. These are all very popular franchises from PS2 last generation.

StarFox as an IP was great for a generation or two, but its quality has fallen off the radar. That's why I don't list it.

And of all those games that you listed, none are Sony 1st party IPs.

On the other hand, Gamecube has only 1 title to sell over 2million in the US, Super Smash Bros. Though Mario Cart, and Mario sunshine were close.

You could argue that Sony's biggest games aren't 1st party, and technically you'd be right, but as far as the gamer is concerned it doesn't matter.

The only point I was making was that with the general lack of quality 1st party titles to support a system, Sony is heavily reliant upon 3rd party developers and exclusives. Without those exclusives, it makes the PS3 a less attractive and viable system.

Say what you will about Nintendo, but even with minimal 3rd party support they have enough IPs to support their own consoles. That's the only point I was making in my original post when I stated that given the lack of exclusivity in the HD console realm, it comes down to price, which the 360 is currently winning at.

Nothing more, nothing less. Frankly I didn't think what I said would generate this much controversy. It just seems to be a matter of logic. Sony nor MS can carry a system on the strength of their 1st party offerings. Nintendo can, and have proven this much.

 

[Natoma]

Did you read what I wrote?
Your unwillingness to back order it is the problem here. I do understand very well that it is hard to get one from stores or to see a online site having them in stock. It should have been relatively easy to back order it ages ago and receive a unit well before today though.

And how many online stores should I reserve at when they're not sure they'll be getting another shipment? How many brick and mortar stores? What if I reserve at multiple stores and several get Wii shipments in? There goes my payment at multiple stores.

Not particularly bright if you ask me.

 

[dobwal]

And how many online stores should I reserve at when they're not sure they'll be getting another shipment? How many brick and mortar stores? What if I reserve at multiple stores and several get Wii shipments in? There goes my payment at multiple stores.

Not particularly bright if you ask me.

When did the choice of picking any particular store that allows back ordering and has a history of getting regular orders of Wiis become obselete? A store might not be able to tell you when it will get it next shipment but it can tell how regularly it gets shipments whether weekly, bimonthly, monthly or inconsistently.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

When did the choice of picking any particular store that allows back ordering and has a history of getting regular orders of Wiis become obselete? A store might not be able to tell you when it will get it next shipment but it can tell how regularly it gets shipments whether weekly, bimonthly, monthly or inconsistently.

And if he had done that months ago, he would have had the unit already and that's 100% certainty . I don't see how it would have been worse strategy than what he has going on now.

 

[Natoma]

My original comment was that finding a Wii is extremely difficult. Then I get some snarky response from Dr Evil regarding getting off my duff to go out and find one. Then when I talk about the fact that you just can't walk into any store and pick one up, I'm castigated for not trying to get on a wait list. Nevermind that those wait lists are full of individuals trying to get their hands on one as it is, and that you have to usually put 10-20% down, non-refundable, to get on those wait lists, and it becomes an expensive proposition.

Contrary to what a lot of people on this forum think, some people do have full time jobs and don't have money to sock away for gaming for lord knows how long.

 

[StefanS]

Ok, fellas.

I think everyone got his/her point across. Now it's time to move back on topic, after all this is a sales topic, not a first party versus thread. Don't make put you on a tight leash.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

Didn't mean to hurt your feelings there, it just that you post like Wii is really important to you, yet it's been out six months and you still don't have one. And if I remember correctly your salary was quite high, so putting down 10-20% of the Wii probably wouldn't hurt you too much, atleast if you wan't it as much as your posts would lead to believe.

 

[Natoma]

Ok, fellas.

I think everyone got his/her point across. Now it's time to move back on topic, after all this is a sales topic, not a first party versus thread. Don't make put you on a tight leash.

Hey now, my original comment was sales related. I just didn't think it'd be conflated to this level.

 

[Natoma]

Didn't mean to hurt your feelings there, it just that you post like Wii is really important to you, yet it's been out six months and you still don't have one. And if I remember correctly your salary was quite high, so putting down 10-20% of the Wii probably wouldn't hurt you too much, atleast if you wan't it as much as your posts would lead to believe.

As I said, those downpayments are non-refundable. $25-$50 per wait list adds up.

And regardless of that, Mike Tyson and Michael Jackson went bankrupt even with hundreds of millions in net worth. Definitely don't have that kind of wealth. In other words, I don't throw money around.

Do I want a Wii? Certainly. You bet. Do I want to put money down at several stores in the hopes that I end up getting one in a few months time? Not particularly.

Btw, hurt feelings? Over this? heh. You haven't spent much time in the RSPC forum. This kind of banter is child's stuff.

 

[dobwal]

Do I want a Wii? Certainly. You bet. Do I want to put money down at several stores in the hopes that I end up getting one in a few months time? Not particularly.

http://www.xpbargains.com/wii_locator.php

Here use this someone gets a Wii shipment just about everyday.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Ok, FF and MGS aren't Sony 1st party IPs. Those games are Square and Konami. I'm not talking games that are exclusives. I'm talking about games developed by Sony.

Well, my original statement was not worded well.

When I said "Sony still has enough great 1st party titles", what I meant was they have enough great exclusives. Whether they're 2nd party, or 3rd, does not matter to me or any other gamers out there looking to pick up a system, and is really a side issue.

- Edit just read Stefen's post....movin on

 

[Phil]

Natoma,

Just to be clear on what I'm arguing (and the relevancy to the sales thread, StefanS):

Sony's quality 1st party titles are rather few and far between. And their exclusives have been moving toward the 360, DS, and Wii over the past several months as the PS3's sales have tanked. I dunno, I just don't see it. And if the sales of the PS3 continue as they have been, you can count on it not getting those exclusives from 3rd party developers. At the end of the day, it's about money and marketshare.

So, from where I'm sitting, it seems you're saying that Sony is ultimately in trouble if they continue with these sales, as they are more likely to lose more exclusive 3rd party content. I agree with this - losing exclusive 3rd party content is never good, especially for publicities sake. I however, do not believe, that your argument and comparison of Nintendo franchises and Sony 1st/2nd party is anything more than your humble opinion, especially when considering that Nintendo practically appealed to a much smaller market (I'll restrain from calling it niche though) last generation. Even though Wii is selling extremely hot at the moment, I'm not convinced they're selling far beyond their usual audience - and perhaps a large share of their handheld market. The question is: With all the great sales their enjoying with Wii at the moment - are they taking away sales of the PlayStation (and somewhat the Xbox) platform? It's my opinion that they are not. It's not that players who have enjoyed games like GTA, Final Fantasy, Gran Turismo, ICO (all best sellers) suddenly forget about all those games and only want a Wii with Mario and Zelda.

If anything, I think Wii is that perfect 2nd console. It's cheap, easy and fun. The perfect party entertainment if you want. Is it an alternative? As one of those PlayStation supporters, I can tell you, to me, it isn't. I will be getting a Wii though, for the reasons above, no doubt. That still doesn't make me anymore less of a Sony supporter though. Does that make Wii sales any less impressive? No. Does it make Wii less of a success? No. Does it mean Wii is better off than the PlayStation platform? IMO not comparable, as it would be like comparing a handheld with a console - the difference being a large price difference and different market appeal.

Having said that, Sony's 1st/2nd party isn't that bad as you make it to be. Sure, you as a Nintendo fan (no offence intended) could probably care less for what Sony is offering and perhaps fail to see the appeal of those titles. Can't blame you though - I just think that not all things are directly comparable. Ico's good, so is Mario. Is one better than the other? IMO not comparable. Is Nintendo's franchise better than Sony's? IMO not comparable as well. I as a PlayStation supporter enjoy them both. As to your list of games that don't have "Mario" in the title - good games they are, but as a PlayStation supporter, I'm not nearly as tempted by them as you probably are. Same goes to Halo on Xbox. Maybe that will change once I spend more time on them, but probably would you as well if you were to spend more time with Sony's 1st/2nd party games...


If what you say turns out to be true (that Sony's continues to lose all their exclusive 3rd party content), I would still buy the PlayStation platform thanks to those 1st/2nd party games. Perhaps this would have been different 8 years ago when the Sony brand had little other than 3rd party games to offer. The times have changed though and as archangelmorph put it, Sony has an impressive fleet of defining games in many genres: From adventure, racing, sci-fi racing, action, jump'n run to fun games as well.

So Natoma, lets just let this "Nintendo's franchises have stood the test of time better than x or y" argument. It's also a bit of an unfair argument, Nintendo after all has been around far longer and have had a platform to its own practically selling nothing but their own IP. They make excellent games - lets just leave it at that, mkay?

Cheers Phil

 

[PatrickL]

The question is: With all the great sales their enjoying with Wii at the moment - are they taking away sales of the PlayStation (and somewhat the Xbox) platform? It's my opinion that they are not. It's not that players who have enjoyed games like GTA, Final Fantasy, Gran Turismo, ICO (all best sellers) suddenly forget about all those games and only want a Wii with Mario and Zelda.

Could you explain why you seem to think that the new GTA FF and so on could not be on a Wii ? Are you ultimately thinking that a PS2 is more powerful than a Wii while it was less poweful than a gamecube ?

When PS2 was the main console, the 2 others suffered from bad or rushed ports, but why the wii should suffer the same fate ? What we are seeing now as games coming out are the fruits of decision and risks made circa winter 2005, not decisions made now with the actual market sales.

 

[Cheezdoodles]

When PS2 was the main console, the 2 others suffered from bad or rushed ports, but why the wii should suffer the same fate ?

Because nobody would buy a port of a Wii game for the X360 or the PS3?

 

[PatrickL]

Sure instead of making for the Wii on purpose with a more affordable budget and gain money in the end.

Just read that article:

Publisher slams high costs as "ego tripping and copycat mentality"
The spiralling costs of next-gen games development are embarrassing, unworkable and an ego trip for publishers, according to Blast Entertainment CEO Sean Brennan.

I think the ego trip is not only for the publishers and far too much people are confusing good games with 1080 games. While both are not mutually exclusives, 1080 is not a proof of game quality.

 

[Phil]

Could you explain why you seem to think that the new GTA FF and so on could not be on a Wii ? Are you ultimately thinking that a PS2 is more powerful than a Wii while it was less poweful than a gamecube ?

When PS2 was the main console, the 2 others suffered from bad or rushed ports, but why the wii should suffer the same fate ? What we are seeing now as games coming out are the fruits of decision and risks made circa winter 2005, not decisions made now with the actual market sales.

There's large difference between the capabilities between a PS3/Xbox360 and Wii. Further and more importantly, I wonder if 3rd party games would even sell well on the Wii. Sure, a Final Fantasy would sell alright - but would a GTA? What about other games? Many 3rd parties were very disappointed with the sales of their games/ports on the GameCube and it was said a lot that the only games that tend to sell well on a Nintendo platform is, well... a game by Nintendo.

If the situation on Wii is similar or not, depends on the market. Are people that are buying a Wii today buying it for 3rd party games or especially for Nintendo's games? I think its the latter. Besides, the best games on Wii will be those taking advantage of the the consoles strenght, the controller. As such, they will be games that will be targeted for PS3 and Xbox360 - and others that will be stricktly for Wii. I don't think there will be many that will see the same game on all 3 platforms....

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Many 3rd parties were very disappointed with the sales of their games/ports on the GameCube and it was said a lot that the only games that tend to sell well on a Nintendo platform is, well... a game by Nintendo.

If you release a crappy port of a ps2 game made by your 4th string team how the hell do you expect to outsell nintendo's big guns? thats like complaining your Fiat panda cant beat a Ferrari F1 2007 on the track. Like duh. As with every platform, if you dont release a quality game, you cant expect to get good sales.