Jak II
- Thread starter cthellis42
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Re: Impressions, impressions...
I'm pretty sure this would be techincally doable, but to fall that far down would take a while, and most people want to start playing right after they've been killed, so it would have been a bad move to have Jak fall all the way down, and make the player wait til he was all the way down there to start playing again.
Reaver_STHLM said:
I'm pretty sure this would be techincally doable, but to fall that far down would take a while, and most people want to start playing right after they've been killed, so it would have been a bad move to have Jak fall all the way down, and make the player wait til he was all the way down there to start playing again.
marconelly!
Veteran
Just as you can walk/run/drive from one part of the city, not have any loading and see everything in it, there's not reason why they shouldn't be able to let you fall down and die. However, the fall would probably lasted for 20-30 seconds and noone wants to wait that. The 'simplified' model you meniton is simply a LOD engine at work. Even in J&D you could overview the whole village at the beginning of the level and just run over there and see it upclose. They have to use LOD engine for two reasons - to keep things render fast enough, and to reduce distant geometry and texture detail, as to not fall into the trap of rendering tiny horizontal lines that would produce insane aliasing.
Seriously, to compare something so mundane as N64 Zelda to *this* is kinda ridiculous.
I'm at the mountain temple.
The game is getting better as I get further in it.
As the town areas open, the graphics impress and surprise every time I enter a new area.
There's a nice view from the mountain temple to the city, can't wait to get to that huge structure in the middle of the city. I'm sure when I get there I'll spend a few minutes just to admire the sunrises and sunsets.
The missions can be quite challenging and even frustrating. I hoe there won't be much more time based missions, they are my least favorite in any game.
The first time limited mission where you had to go to the hoverboard area in time fas so frustrating, especially if you don't knoe the city inside out. It was until I used the map at every junction. But this spoils the fun such mission is supposed to have.
When do you get the hoverboard to keep? I passed the first test challenge on the arena, but didn't get to own the hb.
The game is getting better as I get further in it.
As the town areas open, the graphics impress and surprise every time I enter a new area.
There's a nice view from the mountain temple to the city, can't wait to get to that huge structure in the middle of the city. I'm sure when I get there I'll spend a few minutes just to admire the sunrises and sunsets.
The missions can be quite challenging and even frustrating. I hoe there won't be much more time based missions, they are my least favorite in any game.
The first time limited mission where you had to go to the hoverboard area in time fas so frustrating, especially if you don't knoe the city inside out. It was until I used the map at every junction. But this spoils the fun such mission is supposed to have.
When do you get the hoverboard to keep? I passed the first test challenge on the arena, but didn't get to own the hb.
I’m having very mixed feelings about this game, one moment I hate it, the next I think it’s pretty good. Can’t remember ever having felt this way about a game before... :S
I can see what the Gamespy reviewer must have been through.
The graphics are some of the most impressive I’ve ever seen on any platform, be it PC or console. It’s just that in large parts of the game the colours and overall atmosphere is so drab and depressing, it almost makes me want to stop playing, it’s getting better as I progress though.
I can see what the Gamespy reviewer must have been through.
The graphics are some of the most impressive I’ve ever seen on any platform, be it PC or console. It’s just that in large parts of the game the colours and overall atmosphere is so drab and depressing, it almost makes me want to stop playing, it’s getting better as I progress though.
Oh, there are also plenty of colourful cheery places in the game.
But the sun doesn't seem to shine as brightly in JakII as in J&D
recursor Legacy. Maybe it is just because a city ruled by tyranny is not supposed to be a jolly gay place.
Somehow it feels that the day is much shorter than night in this game.
The bright sunny time goes past often without noticing.
But the sun doesn't seem to shine as brightly in JakII as in J&D
recursor Legacy. Maybe it is just because a city ruled by tyranny is not supposed to be a jolly gay place.Somehow it feels that the day is much shorter than night in this game.
The bright sunny time goes past often without noticing.
Reaver_STHLM
Newcomer
marconelly! said:
Yeah, I know it's LOD:ing, and I understand the reasons for it, but throughout the game it feels like ND is actually making an effort not to remind you that everything is seamless. There is not ONE instance in the game where they let you make the transition from "up there" to "down there". That's where the comparison with Zelda comes from, it let you manipulate the world however you wanted to, as did Jak 1 for as far as I played it, if you want a comparison that is closer technically.
I'm probably more jaded than I was in the past, guess that's the thing.
Oh, and about the technology of it all, I don't think it's really possible to compare driving around in a very populated city at like 50 km/h (which gives the occlusion system loads of time to optimise what we're seing), to falling to your death from a top-down view that would make LOD:ing extremely apparent. The details would be drawn in as you get to like 5 m above the ground, I mean, even when you're driving around it's at 30, imagine where it would have to be if you saw several streets simlutaniously from a top-down view.
And no, the game doesn't morph-LOD, it just swaps models/textures.
hey69 said:speaking of progr scan .. can anyone point me to PAL progr scan TV's ?
i 'm planning to buy a new tv, if possible a progr scan one
but I 'm concerned about the price.....
well, if u want a pro-scan TV here in PAL territories, and u're concerned about money... then sweetie, u're hopeless... not gonna find a pro-scan tv at less than, say, UK£2000.. simply because u'd have to go for plasma or LCD, since there are like 1 or 2 CRT pro-scan TV's here... andeven then they're not less than a grand and a half each
Reaver_STHLM said:
Unless I completely missunderstood your post, I really can't see how different Jak II is from Jak & Daxter in making that above mentioned transition. In fact, both have no loading screens and that you could see places where you were moments before. However, I don't recall being able to get from one place to a previous one in an instance in J&D which would resemble the scenario you described of falling down to the city from above in Jak II. :?
Phil said:
i think nostalgia is playing a big emotional part in Reaver's "reviews"... maybe we should all go playing Zelda:OOT and then switch to JAK2...
i mean Zelda:OOT looked amazing when it first came out, and pushed the boundaries and everything... but comparing that to JAK2 is just plain WRONG. at least technically.
the "falling" issue is a non-issue.
first, we all know that holding the whole city in RAM would be impossible for ANY platform on the market now (maybe a PC with 1Gb RAM), and i also think that, seen how everything else looks absolutely amazing in the game, this non-issue is quite forgivable (in italic because there's nothing to forgive, it's a non-issue).
second, practicality. showing the whole city as u fall down would be pointless and useless, since u know u'd die, and i don't see the point of waiting 30 seconds to see the whole city pass through u and the DIE.
the tearing issue is much less apparent when in interlaced mode than in pro-scan. i still have to decide whether to play the game in pro-scan with all the IQ benefits BUT with more apparent tearing, OR playing it in interlaced mode with its fuzzy appereance BUT with very slightly visible tearing...
I think he means that even though JakII is supposed to be a much larger game than J&D, it still feels more claustrophobic.
I felt that way, it must be because of the crowded city streets and that the game does not have as much high altitude places and where you can see far around you (at least in the beginning).
The areas in JakII are more crowded and with high buildings everywhere, you don't see the horizon nearly as much as in J&D. When in J&D if you turned around, in most occasions you would see some far away places on the horizon, in Jak II you mostly see buildings.
True, there are many areas in JakII where you see further, but they are much rarer (and thus more impressive, maybe)
I really grow to like this game more and more the further I advance. Navigating the city is no longer such a bore as I've got to know my way around, and the missions improve. There's still very strong the feeling of exploration and amazement that was present in the first game.
No-one should let the minor technical problem called tearing put off
from playing this game. Jak II is still more polished than most games.
I'd still put it in the 'Polish top 5':
1. GT3
2. MGS2
3. R&C
4. J&D
5. JakII
I felt that way, it must be because of the crowded city streets and that the game does not have as much high altitude places and where you can see far around you (at least in the beginning).
The areas in JakII are more crowded and with high buildings everywhere, you don't see the horizon nearly as much as in J&D. When in J&D if you turned around, in most occasions you would see some far away places on the horizon, in Jak II you mostly see buildings.
True, there are many areas in JakII where you see further, but they are much rarer (and thus more impressive, maybe)
I really grow to like this game more and more the further I advance. Navigating the city is no longer such a bore as I've got to know my way around, and the missions improve. There's still very strong the feeling of exploration and amazement that was present in the first game.
No-one should let the minor technical problem called tearing put off
from playing this game. Jak II is still more polished than most games.
I'd still put it in the 'Polish top 5':
1. GT3
2. MGS2
3. R&C
4. J&D
5. JakII
rabidrabbit said:
thats interesting, we should do a thread about this!!
actually i'm gonna do it now!!
marconelly!
Veteran
I'm not sure I understand what you are talking about, as they obviously load portions of the city around you as you move around, just as they did with the scenery in J&D. If you fell down from above, they would simply load the complete portion of the part of the city where you are falling, and keep the surrounding that you wouldn't get to see from upclose low detailed. As I've mentioned, in J&D you could have a full overview of an area from above, and just walk down there (the very beginning of the game features that, and it definitely doesn't imply any '5m draw-in'), there's really no reason they would be changing the engine behavour that much for the sequel,
They don't use standard LOD, I know, but suggesting that they keep 3-4 models of everything around in the memory at the same time seems pretty far fetched. I think they have some way of 'tagging' parts of the objects details that can fade in and out as you get closer/further from them. It works really, really well, IMO.
The mipmapping especially, is very impressive. I’ve only once noticed the mipline in the week Ive been playing. It seems like they ditched the "fake" dither-trilinear, that was very apparent on the grass in J&D. Aniosotrphic noise is also much less apparent than in other PS2 games.
why is it that NO ONE can spell the word anisotropic... even i'm not sure how to spell it.... i mean, even different websites spell it differently....
Anti-aliasing is another word that is often mispelled
'antialising' 'antialaising'...'antaliasing'
Gouraud is often mispelled 'Goraud'
FLOPS is often mispelled 'Floppy FLOPS'
Ha! I just browsed through the B3D 'Glossary' page, and there the word Bilinear filtering is mispelled 'Binilear filtering'
'antialising' 'antialaising'...'antaliasing'
Gouraud is often mispelled 'Goraud'
FLOPS is often mispelled 'Floppy FLOPS'
Ha! I just browsed through the B3D 'Glossary' page, and there the word Bilinear filtering is mispelled 'Binilear filtering'
Forgot about "specular lighting" often mispelled into "shiny shine"..
by the way, it must be just me and my brain-blindness, but i still haven't seen Jak2 in the shops.... :? :?
by the way, it must be just me and my brain-blindness, but i still haven't seen Jak2 in the shops.... :? :?
http://www.play.com/play247.asp?pa=mchp&page=title&r=PS2&title=120247london-boy said:Forgot about "specular lighting" often mispelled into "shiny shine"..
by the way, it must be just me and my brain-blindness, but i still haven't seen Jak2 in the shops.... :? :?
Play.com got it in stock, so it's save to say: the game is available in the UK.
It can be easily missed, the cover does not exactly jump out among other games. You haven't got the game yet?
I think you'll like it, there's even some nice particle efects at places (try crashing some boxes and vases at the marketplace)
The game is better (both technically and gameplay) than what one could think of all the critisism it has received.
I think you'll like it, there's even some nice particle efects at places (try crashing some boxes and vases at the marketplace)
The game is better (both technically and gameplay) than what one could think of all the critisism it has received.
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