Jak II

[rabidrabbit]

I saw it on the shop yesterday (14th), was shopping with my boyfriend and there it was on the shelf of the local home electronics store.
The cover design is a bit poor. Altough I spotted it from ten meters distance, it is such that easily gets lost on the shelf, murky and dark cover.

Don't know about the game though, 'cos I didn't buy it... or my bf didn't let me buy it ... or guess he would have let me buy it (it's my money after all), but he would not have been too happy about it.
He would have said: 'You aren't going to buy yet another game again?!?! You just got that one game in the mail today (SCII) and you haven't even played it yet, and a few weeks ago you bought those two games you still haven't finished (DC2, ZOE2), Oh! look there's a laundry mangle! that's what we need now come away from that game shelf let's go look at that mangle it's only 99 euros!!

I don't need boyfriend or a frigging mangle, I need more GAMES
Propably will buy it the next time I can sneak into the store without him.
When he asks 'Is that another new game?!' I answer 'Nooo, it's just a demo from the disc that came with the magazine..' (this worked a while with Z.O.E.2 )

 

[London Geezer]

I saw it on the shop yesterday (14th), was shopping with my boyfriend and there it was on the shelf of the local home electronics store.
The cover design is a bit poor. Altough I spotted it from ten meters distance, it is such that easily gets lost on the shelf, murky and dark cover.

Don't know about the game though, 'cos I didn't buy it... or my bf didn't let me buy it ... or guess he would have let me buy it (it's my money after all), but he would not have been too happy about it.
He would have said: 'You aren't going to buy yet another game again?!?! You just got that one game in the mail today (SCII) and you haven't even played it yet, and a few weeks ago you bought those two games you still haven't finished (DC2, ZOE2), Oh! look there's a laundry mangle! that's what we need now come away from that game shelf let's go look at that mangle it's only 99 euros!!

I don't need boyfriend or a frigging mangle, I need more GAMES
Propably will buy it the next time I can sneak into the store without him.
When he asks 'Is that another new game?!' I answer 'Nooo, it's just a demo from the disc that came with the magazine..' (this worked a while with Z.O.E.2 )

oh dear.... r u at the "oh look at that laundry mangle!" stage?
gosh i remember those days... never again if u ask me, although i'm sure u 2 r very happy together.....
just do like i do, "babe if u dont let me buy and play THIS game, i won't have sex with u"....
it always works...

 

[rabidrabbit]

yea, we are happy together
I have the games addiction, he has the domestic appliance addiction.

hmmm.. are we out of topic here

 

[London Geezer]

yea, we are happy together
I have the games addiction, he has the domestic appliance addiction.

hmmm.. are we out of topic here

i think we are... just keep squeezing a paragraph about Jak2 into the posts and u'll be fine...

oh god i've got a joke...... no not gonna post it on here...

anyway, does anyone know whether R&C2 will also support progressive scan?

also, i wasn't gonna mention it, fearing death, but i must say that the look of the first J&D was more my thing, the organic jungles and natural environments attract me more than the "city".. i mean it's still beautiful, but still, the "city" has been done before by EVERYONE... keeping the natural environments would have made this game better in my eyes. just a matter of taste really.

 

[rabidrabbit]

I think tere still is some 'organic' areas outside town.
I've seen pictures of forest with trees, flowers, butterflys... it looked beautiful.

c'mon just post that joke... there's only us here right now, no-moderator's gonna notice

 

[Phil]

also, i wasn't gonna mention it, fearing death, but i must say that the look of the first J&D was more my thing, the organic jungles and natural environments attract me more than the "city".. i mean it's still beautiful, but still, the "city" has been done before by EVERYONE... keeping the natural environments would have made this game better in my eyes. just a matter of taste really.

^^ yeah, I know what you mean. You'll be happy to hear that most missions (the ones that I have played so far, anyway) are all outside the city. Amazing thing is, the city is huge, but there is still so much outside of it to see, it's really quite hard to believe how big it really is. I think you'll be pleasantly suprised.

I'm done with working (it's 2:32 p.m) over here, so I'll be home pretty soon to play some more. If I get a chance, I'll be back with some more impressions of the game by tonight.

 

[London Geezer]

oh good!!! phew.... loads of trees and green things then..... cool...

well, the joke was more a comment on....

I have the games addiction, he has the domestic appliance addiction.

...so u like toys then....

 

[rabidrabbit]

hehe well, after living together for 6 years you do need something to freshen up the relationship.
I think I could live with an electronic meat beater or plastic bag sealing machine, but I don't know what to think about that mangle and sewing machine he's been eyeing
Does the JakII levels where you race the hovercars on a predefined track (like WipeOut) also have the tearing present? In R&C2 demo the racing was fun and fast.

 

[London Geezer]

hehe well, after living together for 6 years you do need something to freshen up the relationship.
I think I could live with an electronic meat beater or plastic bag sealing machine, but I don't know what to think about that mangle and sewing machine he's been eyeing
Does the JakII levels where you race the hovercars on a predefined track (like WipeOut) also have the tearing present? In R&C2 demo the racing was fun and fast.

is there tearing in the R&C2 demo?

 

[rabidrabbit]

Didn't notice any.

Still, I didn't really pay attention to tearing in JakII demo, only after it was brought up here, I remember seeing something like tearing in JakII demo, and it was on the title screen where the camera pans around the streets before JakII logo is displayed. Then again, there was mostly footing around in the demo, didn't do much hoverboarding.

In my eyes, R&C2 demo looked very much the same (image quality and model & level complexity) as the first R&C (not a bad thing, as it still is a very good looking game).

 

[nAo]

Yes..there is tearing everywhere..even in the opening titles..
But I know slow downs are not due to 'graphics' overload (Vu1+GS), the game is mostly EE-core limited.

 

[Phil]

bump

no one got this game yet? I must say, after having played for roughly 10 hours already at about 40% of the game, I'm beginning to love it. It's very challenging though, which sometimes can get you close to frustration when repeating mission x for the 10th time...

 

[rabidrabbit]

Can you go and do another mission, if the current feels too hard, and come back to it later? Or does it force you to go through that mission once you accept it?

 

[Phil]

hum, you should be able to pend around between two different people for missions. Though that won't help you much, since you'll have to do the mission if you want the story to progress (like in GTA). It's nothing bad though, I think a bit frustration is healthy to a game like this (and that was so damn easy in its first installement).

 

[rabidrabbit]

Bought the game yesterday.
Played it for an hour or so before going to bed. Got to the 'water supply' mission.
It's a good game.

Somehow it feels more claustrophobic than the first J&D. Maybe it's because you start the game indoors and proceed inside the city walls.
Jak & Daxter started with beautiful landscapes, where from the beginning you could see so far ahead of you.
That gave a sense of wonder, excitement, and you just couldn't wait to explore those far away places.
That sense of exploration is missing in the beginning of Jak II.
Still, I'm only at the very beginning.

Graphics are great, but the tearing and frame jumping in the city streets is quite bad (even on foot). I can live with that, but as Jak and Daxter was so technically perfect, I just excepted another 100% polished title from Naughty Dog.
In other places the game is smoother, but on occasions you can spot some minor tearing. It's nothing that ruins the game (still better than most games on any platform) and considering the complexity of some of the levels, it's still a small wonder what ND has done on PS2.

The missions up to now (remember, I'm on my 3rd or 4th mission) are very simple: beat a few guards, get a flag from top of a ruined building, open a water valve. Not very exciting, and going back and forth between the 'base' gets soon a bit tiresome, as ther is not much else than just either go by foot or hovervehicle, just run or fly between the places, nothing exciting to do along the way.
But I guess as the story advances, the missions get more exciting.

Maybe my exceptations were way too high for Jak II, after the immaculate predecessor. The main initial let-down was that it wasn't the technically 100% perfect title I was anticipating.
The gameplay is still good, and after a slightly boring start it might improve.

Edit: When I look back at GTA:Vice City, at the beginning I thought Vice City was very confusing and a bit boring. But as I became familiar with the city and learned to navigate my way by landmarks, the whole game changed for me. Now after I've finished VC:s main missions, I still pop the game in my PS2 every now and then, just to cruise arounnd and enjoy the athmospehere. Though in GTA:VC the music played a very big part in making the place so much full of character.
Maybe I'll learn to love the city in Jak II as I travel around it more. At least in GTA:VC the technical problems were 1000x worse, if only there was more to do in JakII city streets (maybe there is, i'm still at the very beginning)

 

[Echarin]

rabidtabbit: I felt a bit like you when I first started playing the game, but my whole view of the game changed as I got further into it. Sure, some of the missions are a real pain and it can get annoying as hell to go from one corner of the city to another, but aside from that this game is great.
One hint: When you get to the mountain temple and have taken the teleporter up, look back, you'll enjoy the sight.

 

[Phil]

One hint: When you get to the mountain temple and have taken the teleporter up, look back, you'll enjoy the sight.

^^ the view is amazing, only beaten by one instance: before you get the elevator to work, you go waaaaayy up and then you can look down on the city.... 8)

I can live with that, but as Jak and Daxter was so technically perfect, I just excepted another 100% polished title from Naughty Dog.

Exactly my thoughts. I wish they would have given up progressive out or Dolby Prologic in favour of less tearing and a 100% constant framerate. Though, now that I'm really into the game, I somewhat have the feeling that tearing isn't as bad anymore... maybe I'm just getting used to it or adapted my playing style... :?

 

[London Geezer]

Exactly my thoughts. I wish they would have given up progressive out or Dolby Prologic in favour of less tearing and a 100% constant framerate. Though, now that I'm really into the game, I somewhat have the feeling that tearing isn't as bad anymore... maybe I'm just getting used to it or adapted my playing style... :?

I REALLY REALLY do not think that the inclusion of DPL2 has anything to do with anything more than 1% of performance (full DTS surround takes less than 4%, as Archie4oz said, therefore i guess DPL2 would be much less than that)
as for the progressive out, ANY full frame rendered game is already "supporting" it internally. therefore the inclusion of the option for progressive out has nothing to do with performance. full-frame rendering MIGHT, but progressive scan in itself does not. u might want to say that half-frame rendering could help performance, if even that is correct.
something that could have helped is... maybe....USING LESS FRIKKING POLYGONS!!!!
still, the game looks absolutely fantastic, and of course it's pushing PS2 to its limits, i guess they really wanted to push the IQ and look of the game rather than on framerate. at the end of the day that is what 90% of Xbox developers do anyway.
i must say, the tearing is a bit bad-ish, at least in pro-scan on my tv. i only played the demo, and the intro title screen is quite bad although great looking - i'm still unsure whether it's realtime or prerendered, i mean it looks absolutely perfect apart from tearing and if the game is all like that, then DAMN i'm gonna get this one

 

[rabidrabbit]

Would someone clarify if the Dolby Pro Logic and Dolby Pro Logic 2 in games are interactive or just plain pre-mixed effects (in which case the hit on performance would be zero).

I have just DPL in my AV amp (and DTS, DD) no DPL2, and to be honest, I havent come across a single game that I would have noticed any sounds from behind, other than some echo in music or background [non interactive) effects.

london-boy: The tearing in game is not half as bad as in the intro. In the intro, the tall tower, while panning, just breaks horribly. I have yet to encounter as bad tearing in game.

Can't wait to get there in the mountain temple that Echarin mentioned.
Despite all my critisism, Jak II is for a long time one of those games I want to hurry home to play. It must be good then

 

[London Geezer]

Would someone clarify if the Dolby Pro Logic and Dolby Pro Logic 2 in games are interactive or just plain pre-mixed effects (in which case the hit on performance would be zero).

I have just DPL in my AV amp (and DTS, DD) no DPL2, and to be honest, I havent come across a single game that I would have noticed any sounds from behind, other than some echo in music or background [non interactive) effects.

london-boy: The tearing in game is not half as bad as in the intro. In the intro, the tall tower, while panning, just breaks horribly. I have yet to encounter as bad tearing in game.

Can't wait to get there in the mountain temple that Echarin mentioned.
Despite all my critisism, Jak II is for a long time one of those games I want to hurry home to play. It must be good then

well, the performance hit would never be zero, that would be impossible. it might be SMALL but never zero. still, since DPL2 is just a "hacked" stereo signal (i call it hacked because it's not real surround sound like DTS is). i havent had a chance to play the game therefore i wouldn't know if the track is prerecorded. but, for argument's sake, the DTS tracks in SSX tricky and others were totally interactive (u can move your player around and hear the sounds coming from all directions, even the sounds from other players which cannot of course be pre-recorded). so i guess it would be very sloppy to include prerecorded DPL2... i mean, it's hardly impressive by itself anyway...
out in the UK yet? anyone?