It's July 24, 2003 and all is well with Cell so far...

I think along the same lines as you are, Chaphack.


I really hope Sony puts some effort into PS3's Graphics Processing Unit, or gets outside help (nvidia or whoever) if they cannot manage to design a steller rasterizer on their own. The GS is often compared to Voodoo1 or TNT1/2, only there are 16 pipelines in the Sony chip. I say that GS3 / Visualizer needs to have pixel shading ability on par with the forthcoming Pixel Shader 3.0 spec that will be fully supported in hardware by R420 and Nv40. or at the very, very least, Pixel Shader 2.0-like ability. that combined with massively powerful polygon drawing speed (like GS) would make PS3 a killer machine. I do not think that the APUs and PUs in GS3 / Visualizer will be enough to do 2.0/3.0-like pixel shading in software at good speed. then again, i might not know what the hell i am talking about either. I know what Panajev says on the subject...I just want PS3's rasterizer to kick ASS, in that it is loaded with useful hardware features / capability AND speed. that's why i am hoping Sony waits until the last second to finalize PS3's GPU spec. like in late 2004 or early 2005. I don't mind waiting until 2006 to have PS3. I want alot of memory also. All this, so that PS3 can do reasonably good CGI-quality graphics in realtime. I know that, ultimately, I will be forced to settle for less than what I want, because PS3 will only do so much, being that it's going to be a console costing several hundred dollars. it isn't going to be some kind of "miracle machine" like Nvidia's main man says, but I am hoping for something really impressive. like what we got when Dreamcast came out in 1998.
 
MS does not define 3D rendering techniques.

Chap I think you may be confusing that DX is a standardisation of 3D terms whihc IHV's implement in their hardware (such is required in 3D space). the only thing 'limiting' the feature set of any next gen system is cost/performnce ratio.

that will be all.
 
I say that GS3 / Visualizer needs to have pixel shading ability on par with the forthcoming Pixel Shader 3.0 spec that will be fully supported in hardware by R420 and Nv40. or at the very, very least, Pixel Shader 2.0-like ability. that combined with massively powerful polygon drawing speed (like GS) would make PS3 a killer machine. I do not think that the APUs and PUs in GS3 / Visualizer will be enough to do 2.0/3.0-like pixel shading in software at good speed.

Well, we all saw what happened when they were focused on the vertex side, now that they'll likely focus on the pixel areas, I expect pixel functionality/flexibility beyond ps3.0... just like the vus are beyond present vs...

And were did you get that idea?

Well, panajev... He pointed out the psp has 5.0GOPS in the sound area, while the xbox has 4.0GOPS... I think those were the numbers, so it can encode realtime 5.1 and most likely 7.1

As for the easy to dev. for well psp's been said to be similar to psone in terms of dev. ease... now if the psp has a supah easy to dev. supah powerful sound area, it only follows the ps3 will too!!!

ed
 
Megadrive:

What do you mean when you say that the APUs in the PS3's visualizer will do vector code "in software?" From what I've heard they're fully operational vector units and therefore functionally very similiar to the fragment shader vector units in your PC video card.
 
PC-engine, I think that has more to do with say the PSP's media engine than the PS3 ... unless you think there is a lot of call for 16/24 bit integer math in the PS3 :)
 
MfA said:
PC-engine, I think that has more to do with say the PSP's media engine than the PS3 ... unless you think there is a lot of call for 16/24 bit integer math in the PS3 :)

Yeah I posted that because of the talk about the sound capabilites of the PSP.
 
Well, we all saw what happened when they were focused on the vertex side, now that they'll likely focus on the pixel areas, I expect pixel functionality/flexibility beyond ps3.0... just like the vus are beyond present vs...


you could well be right. guess we shall see. if the PUs+APUs in Visualizer can handle pixel shading beyond ps3.0 at speed, combined with high polygon rates (billion or more) i will be impressed.


What do you mean when you say that the APUs in the PS3's visualizer will do vector code "in software?" From what I've heard they're fully operational vector units and therefore functionally very similiar to the fragment shader vector units in your PC video card.

I should back away from that statement, because like i said, i might not know what the hell i am talking about. i guess i am not fully appreciating what the GPU of PS3 is being built for :oops:
 
Megadrive1988 said:
I really hope Sony puts some effort into PS3's Graphics Processing Unit, or gets outside help (nvidia or whoever) if they cannot manage to design a steller rasterizer on their own. The GS is often compared to Voodoo1 or TNT1/2, only there are 16 pipelines in the Sony chip. I say that GS3 / Visualizer needs to have pixel shading ability on par with the forthcoming Pixel Shader 3.0 spec that will be fully supported in hardware by R420 and Nv40. or at the very, very least, Pixel Shader 2.0-like ability.

AFAIK there is not a huge difference between PS 2.0 and 3.0 (I think 3.0 allows branching in the programs, which in itself is not all that complicated). Because the APUs are more similar to an actual CPU, you could essentially program them to do whatever you want, whether its PS2.0 or PS3.0 or whatever. It all comes down to how fast they are, not what can be done but what can be done at acceptable speeds.

zidane1strife said:
Well, we all saw what happened when they were focused on the vertex side, now that they'll likely focus on the pixel areas, I expect pixel functionality/flexibility beyond ps3.0... just like the vus are beyond present vs...

:rolleyes: because they can create vertices? a Mac from the '80s can create vertices, so I guess that's also better than VS right...hell my TI calculator can create vertices like there's no tomorrow, it's not exactly useful for video games though.
 
because they can create vertices? a Mac from the '80s can create vertices, so I guess that's also better than VS right...hell my TI calculator can create vertices like there's no tomorrow, it's not exactly useful for video games though.

I think there was something more too...
 
Fafalada said:
as in, what? I can create vertices with an abacus...
I can also calculate shading for vertices and pixels with an abacus. I guess we really never needed GPUs at all.

heh, maybe not, just a really slick abacus :)

the point is creation/destruction of vertices is not a very exciting feature, and one that can be easily and cheaply done in software (which is the same way PS2 does it...).
 
the point is creation/destruction of vertices is not a very exciting feature, and one that can be easily and cheaply done in software (which is the same way PS2 does it...).
We can use this same logic to argue that any kind of programmable processing of vertices is not a very exciting feature, period.
It can be easily and cheaply done in software, which is the same way VUs or VSs do it.
 
Oh, now I get it. Sony should wait and see what new features MS will invent for DirectX10, and learn from it.
That would be very very wise of Sony, to wait until DirectX10 before they even think about the features of their new 'GS'.

No it would be very silly... First, judging from the things that MS is looking at for future revisions of DX, they won't be inventing anything, just putting a specification to ideas that are already floating around waiting for somebody to impliment in hardware.

Secondly, considering they're focussing on DX9 (or more appropriately 9.L) for Longhorn which is still something like 2 years away, 'waiting' for DX10 is just silly...

I really hope Sony puts some effort into PS3's Graphics Processing Unit

So I take it they didn't put any effort into the GS huh?

pixel shading ability on par with the forthcoming Pixel Shader 3.0 spec that will be fully supported in hardware by R420 and Nv40.

Upcoming? The spec has been available for quite some time...
 
I did not mean the spec, i ment its realization in hardware. that's what i ment by forthcoming. I wished I had worded that differently :)


as for GS in PS2, it was newer hardware than PowerVR2 and many other 3D chips, yet lacked so many features and rendering quality. Sony only made up for it by stuffing the thing with pipelines and a little on-chip memory.

PS3's GPU needs to be so much better for its time than GS was.
 
Back
Top