Is Doom 3's release going to change the OpenGL community?

[archie4oz]

Which raises another point: why the hell is all the pro stuff still in OpenGL?

Why not?

Partly for pros (yes, they are out there) part for hysterical raisins.

Well why would you switch to something else if the current is working for you? Besides there's still plenty of esoteric stuff in OpenGL used by apps, OSs, etc that's not in ES that makes ES less suitable as a desktop replacement...

Dave, feature request: Spell checking in the message submission box.

Lord no! Just get a browser/OS that has that built in...

 

[AlNom]

Oh that... sorry, I thought it was more widespread.

(EDIT: fixed typo. Maybe that spell checker ain't such a bad idea after all...)

oh.................learn something new everyday thanks.

 

[Cryect]

Which raises another point: why the hell is all the pro stuff still in OpenGL?

Because they happen to be quite useful features for tools. Now as far as ATI seems to concern they aren't there and only kinda support them. Friend got quite pissed off and annoyed some programs he wrote on his GF4 didn't work correct on his new Radeon 9800Pro due to why bother support line stippling correctly since no games use it.

 

[karlotta]

Which raises another point: why the hell is all the pro stuff still in OpenGL?

Because they happen to be quite useful features for tools. Now as far as ATI seems to concern they aren't there and only kinda support them. Friend got quite pissed off and annoyed some programs he wrote on his GF4 didn't work correct on his new Radeon 9800Pro due to why bother support line stippling correctly since no games use it.

BAh! or he used nvda_ext in his code.....

 

[Cryect]

Nope, it was just normal OpenGL line stippling. He sent me the program which I did confirmed worked fine on a Radeon 8500 LE. So something is screwy with their OpenGL driver for those beyond that.

 

[Saem]

I thought OGL was used in the pro arena because it's all about fast and ACCURATE rendering. Where D3D is all about fast rendering, in the pro arena no one would want to see artifacts and what not for the sake of speed.

 

[KimB]

I thought OGL was used in the pro arena because it's all about fast and ACCURATE rendering. Where D3D is all about fast rendering, in the pro arena no one would want to see artifacts and what not for the sake of speed.

Well, it may be that, but it's also that OpenGL has been out longer (and has actually been a good API for even longer).

 

[Smurfie]

I would think it's more about portability. And accuracy.

edit: My boss clipped me over the head for forgetting the accuracy part.

 

[Ostsol]

Might as well ask it: what is it about OpenGL that makes it more accurate? Isn't it only as accurate as the implementation?

 

[Rolf N]

Which raises another point: why the hell is all the pro stuff still in OpenGL?

Why not?

Because it's alien and doesn't lend itself to hardware acceleration.

There are perfectly reasonable replacements for line stippling that do not do exactly the same thing, but produce a similar visual result with full hardware acceleration. If you just want to highlight a selection region in a modeller/CAD type of application you don't need the exact same thing that line stippling is specced out to do.

Programmers of "pro" apps are traditionally used to getting away with even the dumbest, most inefficient designs imaginable. Being "important" shouldn't be accepted as an excuse for being lazy IMO.

 

[KimB]

Might as well ask it: what is it about OpenGL that makes it more accurate? Isn't it only as accurate as the implementation?

Well, I think the specification itself is more exact than Microsoft provides, but what really makes the difference isn't OpenGL, but hardware made for professional applications that has more accurate rendering.

This is why I think it's more due to it being available/good longer. I'm sure part of it's also due to OpenGL being easier to program for, and portability has to be a major concern for some.

 

[DemoCoder]

OGL is more strict with respect to conformance and accuracy/precision. In some applications, particularly CAD, medical, and military, this is an important feature.

 

[Rolf N]

That's not really relevant in practice. Most (decent) consumer graphics chips are designed to support both OpenGL and DirectX Graphics properly, and at that point it doesn't matter which API you use. You'll get the same rasterization precision, because it's an inherent chip feature, not an API feature. Direct3D also started enforcing watertight rasterization rules many years ago, DX6 IIRC.

Pro cards may have much higher subpixel accuracy, but that doesn't mean that an implementation with three bits can't be OpenGL conformant.

 

[db]

Pro cards may have much higher subpixel accuracy, but that doesn't mean that an implementation with three bits can't be OpenGL conformant.

Other than the OpenGL spec requiring 4 bits (as does DX9). Pro cards for the most part exist because they have a feature or two that can ostensibly command higher margins. Features that seem more legitimate are dual (or quad) dvi out, extremely good AA lines, and at one time hw overlay support. The main reason Pro apps use OpenGL is for portability. An ISV can't afford to artifically limit already small markets by restricting the number of platforms.

Accuracy is or should be a done deal at this point, other than certain IHV's penchant for trading accuracy for performance (aka cheating) in more competive markets (i.e., entertainment). Of course, you shouldn't be surprised to hear that cheating is rampant in the Pro market too. It just doesn't get talked about as much.

 

[DemoCoder]

Everything said above is true, but that's now, it wasn't true in the early days of consumer 3D and DX.

 

[WaltC]

Re: Is Doom 3's release going to change the OpenGL community

Or bring more developers in?....surely there is going to be a lot of intrest.
How much of Carmack's work is truly 'trend setting' to the ARB?

I think it will make as much of an impact as HL2, or Far Cry, etc., will make on the "DX community," or Q3 made in the "OpenGL community" when it was released (and in the years since.) Unlike the D3d environment, which is highly specialized and geared toward 3d-game development exclusively, the OpenGl environment covers a much broader general base in addition to 3d gaming under Windows, which includes its cross-platform characteristics as well. To that end I would think that companies like 3d-labs, for instance, have in their hardware product releases as much of an "effect" on the "OpenGL community" as ID-Software-engine games have, but in a somewhat different direction. I would add that in the case of nVidia's impact on the "OpenGL community," at times it is difficult to separate it from the effect of ID Software's game engines.

I think the chief impact the D3 engine will have on developers will be reflected in the number of them who ante-up to pay for a D3-engine game license--which I suspect will be close to the same impact observed from the Q3 engine. IMO, of course...