Is Doom 3's release going to change the OpenGL community?

[Simon F]

Isn't the development for the PSP supposed to be OpenGL 1.4 or something really similar to it?

They've been considering OpenGL ES for PSP and PS3. Truthfully I wouldn't mind that all too much

FWIW, "Sony Playstation" have recently become members of the Khronos group (who govern OpenGL ES) so I suppose that may be the case.

 

[Farid]

There's plenty of PS2/GC games that uses the UE, especially Ubi Soft games (Splinter Cells, Rainbow Six, XII, Ghost Recon). The PS2/GC UE has very little similarities with UE PC, though.

And BTW GC is very OpenGL friendly.

 

[coredump]

Isn't the development for the PSP supposed to be OpenGL 1.4 or something really similar to it?

They've been considering OpenGL ES for PSP and PS3. Truthfully I wouldn't mind that all too much

FWIW, "Sony Playstation" have recently become members of the Khronos group (who govern OpenGL ES) so I suppose that may be the case.

Wow. Is it just me, or did Sony miss the point of OpenGL ES? I guess that the PSP and PS3 are embedded systems -- if you extend the meaning of embedded systems to PC's, Mainframes, etc.

How can the same API bridge the gap from a cell phone, running a software renderer, to a PS3, without crippling both?

But then again, that discussion belongs somewhere else.

 

[KimB]

Nah, mainframes and PCs each have much more differentiation than you'll see among all PS3's. So I think the term "embedded system" could apply to the PS3 and PSP, but not to PCs and mainframes.

 

[coredump]

Most embedded systems have some sort of memory footprint limitation for the API. I would wager a guess that the PS3 has a considerably larger budget than a few hundred KB for its driver.

It also has no processor crutches (floating point support, cache sizes, bus speeds).

My guess is that a PS3 is a lot closer to a PC (in terms of resouces) than a cell phone.

 

[KimB]

Consoles typically have much less RAM than a PC, so the memory footprint becomes just as much of a limitation, due to the need to deliver much more detailed content than a cell phone.

 

[Rolf N]

Wow. Is it just me, or did Sony miss the point of OpenGL ES? I guess that the PSP and PS3 are embedded systems -- if you extend the meaning of embedded systems to PC's, Mainframes, etc.

OpenGL ES is a very lean specification. A lot of "pro" crap like polygon and line stippling is gone in ES, while you'd have to implement a lot of this baggage if you wanted to be even GL1.0 conformant. That obviously means a smaller "driver", which is easier to maintain and optimize. OTOH there's nothing about OpenGL ES that would make it inherently slower than "desktop" OpenGL. You get the full vertex array shebang, so it is suited for high throughputs just as well.

It would make sense to go OpenGL ES for a console IMO.

 

[Scali]

Perhaps Sony is planning a tiny portable PlayStation device?
Perhaps even an N-Gage-like device... They do make phones too (Sony-Ericsson).

 

[vogel]

Do you think OpenGL game developers like Carmack are a dieing breed?

Most certainly if the ARB doesn't get its act together and finally catches up with D3D. *cough* render-to-texture *cough*

-- Daniel, Epic Games Inc.

 

[Pete]

Heh, I was just about to ask you to clarify your previous draft.

I guess that the Xbox's success (and its D3D roots) is a growing factor in OGL's waning desirability? Surely Xbox revenues will more than compensate for any (lost?) Mac/Linux revenue. Or is porting an OGL game to Xbox not that big of a deal?

PS3 and PSP supporting OGLES is another consideration, though perhaps not as simple, given those two platform's more unique architectures.

 

[AlNom]

isn't the GC using opengl? doesn't that have any effect? or....do you mean the xbox's success as in the huge number of pc ports that encourages the use of DX....

 

[anaqer]

Perhaps Sony is planning a tiny portable PlayStation device?
Perhaps even an N-Gage-like device...

Besides the PSP, I don't think it would have much breathing room.

 

[coredump]

OpenGL ES is a very lean specification. A lot of "pro" crap like polygon and line stippling is gone in ES, while you'd have to implement a lot of this baggage if you wanted to be even GL1.0 conformant. That obviously means a smaller "driver", which is easier to maintain and optimize. OTOH there's nothing about OpenGL ES that would make it inherently slower than "desktop" OpenGL. You get the full vertex array shebang, so it is suited for high throughputs just as well.

It would make sense to go OpenGL ES for a console IMO.

Which raises another point: why the hell is all the pro stuff still in OpenGL?

What I'm saying is that OpenGL ES is running the risk of becoming a bloated pig. Sanity has a harder time prevailing when larger targets in consideration.

 

[ERP]

isn't the GC using opengl? doesn't that have any effect? or....do you mean the xbox's success as in the huge number of pc ports that encourages the use of DX....

Nope it's using an API that is clearly inspired by openGL, but it isn't openGL.

 

[anaqer]

Which raises another point: why the hell is all the pro stuff still in OpenGL?

Partly for pros (yes, they are out there) part for hysterical raisins.
A nice "side effect" of a pure OpenGL 2.0 would be getting rid of the last.

 

[coredump]

Which raises another point: why the hell is all the pro stuff still in OpenGL?

Partly for pros (yes, they are out there) part for hysterical raisins.
A nice "side effect" of a pure OpenGL 2.0 would be getting rid of the last.

Ok, ok.

Dave, feature request: Spell checking in the message submission box.

Ok then, should OpenGL ES become the mainstream OpenGL API? If its cleaner, faster and lighter, why not?

 

[AlNom]

Dave, feature request: Spell checking in the message submission box.

A grammar checker or a dictionary (for definitions) would be more useful in this case.

 

[anaqer]

Huh? Did I mess up something?
(This heat makes me all dumb. )

 

[AlNom]

"historical reasons" is what I think you meant

although..... hysterical raisins sound kinda freaky, but yummy

 

[anaqer]

Oh that... sorry, I thought it was more widespread.

(EDIT: fixed typo. Maybe that spell checker ain't such a bad idea after all...)