Impressive games for their time.

[Shifty Geezer]

Yes. Wasnt it basically a standard back in the old bit days?

It gained prominence in the 16 bit era with the Amiga/ST and tracking. Prerecorded instrument samples were played back at different pitches, versus the audio synthesis of previous sound chips. Sound files were smaller than a full recording of a track while being vastly more varied than the FM bleeps and bloops gamers were used to.

I wonder what devs are using today.

Microsoft developed DirectMusic to enable adaptive audio that allowed blocks of prerecorded audio. I don't know what tracking/sequencing it had. These days audio is mostly prerecorded MP3 etc. It gives the greatest audio variety (do whatever you want with your DAWs and their softsynths) and audio quality, but you do lose flexibility and get increased file sizes. Tracker support in engines seems limited - basically just playing back sequence files without interactivity. Sicne their introduction in Unity in 2010, users have been repeatedly asking for dynamic playback and not getting it. So for adaptive audio, you'd be no better off than stringing music clips together.

Audio sequencing of prerecorded blocks maybe not. Not sure if I am wrong on this, but I think generating the sound/melodies on the fly via virtual instruments and samples and especially with applied effects may have some observable performance impact on the CPU site.

Software synths running on a CPU can be infinitely taxing depending on their complexity. SH2 was using prerecorded audio samples, surely? I got that impression from the DF Retro.

 

[Nesh]

It gained prominence in the 16 bit era with the Amiga/ST and tracking. Prerecorded instrument samples were played back at different pitches, versus the audio synthesis of previous sound chips. Sound files were smaller than a full recording of a track while being vastly more varied than the FM bleeps and bloops gamers were used to.

Microsoft developed DirectMusic to enable adaptive audio that allowed blocks of prerecorded audio. I don't know what tracking/sequencing it had. These days audio is mostly prerecorded MP3 etc. It gives the greatest audio variety (do whatever you want with your DAWs and their softsynths) and audio quality, but you do lose flexibility and get increased file sizes. Tracker support in engines seems limited - basically just playing back sequence files without interactivity. Sicne their introduction in Unity in 2010, users have been repeatedly asking for dynamic playback and not getting it. So for adaptive audio, you'd be no better off than stringing music clips together.

Software synths running on a CPU can be infinitely taxing depending on their complexity. SH2 was using prerecorded audio samples, surely? I got that impression from the DF Retro.

I am not entirely sure. It says that most games play prerecorded audio files whereas SH2's was entirely sequenced via the sound chip and plays defined (?) samples in real time using instructions programmed by the sound designer which allows greater flexibility and perfect looping. It could either be prerecorded samples or sound samples put into a synth or a mix of both. I guess the former with SH? I had the impression that it generated the sounds in addition to sequencing which is why it was the Next next gen version of the SNES method. The older consoles generated the sounds like a synthesizer

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Generated sounds are very limited (until recently, anyway! Some acoustic instruments still aren't that well modelled and plenty of DAW synths use gigabytes of instrument samples). They could have used generated noise effectively, but any instruments would sound terrible if synthesized.

I take the video to be saying that most games use prerecorded audio tracks (audio files), whereas SH2 used samples (single instrument audio clips) arranged in a sequencer (instructions programmed by the sound designer). That can include adding effects, and enables perfect looping and adaptive audio.

 

[vipa899]

Interesting, so i take the gc/xbox had the ability but games there never saw such implementation.

 

[goonergaz]

As this veared off to audio discussion, a big shout out to the Devs who produced the audio on the C64 games... amazing sound chip, I remember having audio tapes of my favourite tracks!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Interesting, so i take the gc/xbox had the ability but games there never saw such implementation.

A top level view of the hardwares doesn't reveal anything specific to PS2 that enables tracking more/better than the other machines. You'd need to hear from those who worked on the machines if there was anything that prevented it. Maybe, perhaps, at a push, PS2's separate audio RAM and CPU meant it could operate without impacting the rest of the machine where perhaps, maybe, if one had to try and find a reason for a difference, you'd have more memory contention on Xbox. An audio file has the impact of one audio stream of BW and decompression, if decompressed on the fly. A 16 track music file will consume 16x that transferring samples of the same quality.

Sounds like the overhead really wouldn't be enough to make the difference to me. Really wants the input of someone who worked the audio on these boxes.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

A few games stand out for different reasons.

• Elite (C64). I could not comprehend how they managed to fit a galaxy into a single-load game.
• Half-Life (PC). Holy crap on the 3D, the story, everything.
• Tomb Raider (PlayStation). I'd never seen nor heard of it but I glimpsed in a GAME Store in Manchester with a friend and bought a PlayStation and Tomb Raider right then. Several hours later I returned and bought a memory card.
• Smugglers Run (PS2). The render distance of the open world was super impressive, even more os for a console. I'd not seen anything like that even on PC - not saying they didn't exist, but I hadn't seen it.
• GTA III (PS2). The city felt massive and alive. No virtual city I'd played before came close.
• Far Cry (PC). It beat Half-Life 2 by five-to-six months and I played it over and over and over.
• GTA IV (PS3). A game that actually did impress me with the graphics and number of things in the world. The leap between San Andrea and GTA IV was astonishing and I really didn't believe any of the trailers until that game booted on my PS3 and saw it myself.

Generally graphics don't wow me but when I see a lot of complex 'moving parts/mechanics' not breaking down, that's impressive.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I've just realised games don't wow me with graphics any more because we see so much WIP etc. LBP probably would have wowed me (the reveal did) except I'd been watching it progress for years. The recent ray-tracing demos would have astounded me if released in a next-gen game some year. However, they're years out and I'll have acclimated to the tech and be expecting it long before its out.

In fact modern graphics aren't amazing. They're a disappointment always that they are so far from photoreal still because those are our expectations of what graphics will one day be.

 

[Sigfried1977]

Maybe not your typical "holy shit" kinda technical marvel, but I was continually impressed with Breath of the Wild. The way all of its various elements seemlessly interact with each other makes for one hell of a unique experience. It's pretty amazing to try out more unique approaches to problem solving (or often very simple ones which usually do not work in most games) because the game's many systems are so robust and universally applied that shit usually just works. Not to mention it does all of that without the substantial amount of jank you've come to expect from games such as this.

 

[dogen]

Audio sequencing of prerecorded blocks maybe not. Not sure if I am wrong on this, but I think generating the sound/melodies on the fly via virtual instruments and samples and especially with applied effects may have some observable performance impact on the CPU site. I used to produce music as a hobby with sequencers on my PC and although memory was never a problem the CPU was.

No, the PS2, Xbox, DC, PS1, Saturn, and even SNES can do all of that with dedicated sound hardware. It's designed to have no impact on the main CPU. None of them have an actual synthesizer like the genesis, nes, and earlier consoles, but they all can play sequenced samples. In the case of the SNES that's the only way it can generate sound (other than pseudo-random noise), and the PS1 and PS2 sound systems descended from that one.

 

[dogen]

FM bleeps and bloops gamers were used to.

I take issue with this
You can describe a NES or gameboy like that, but you can do way more than bleeps and bloops with FM synthesizers. Lots of games on the genesis didn't show this well (some did), but if you look into the libraries in the x68000 and PC-98 you can find some really incredible music.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I've just realised games don't wow me with graphics any more because we see so much WIP etc.

I think for me it's partly because I grew up with an Atari 2600. In some games, like Adventure, you are an actual dot - a bloody great pixel.

Adventure was so far ahead of it's time it was retro before that was a ro to ret! I think stopped being impressed by graphics after 360/PS3 because few real advances are being made that really stand out. More screen resolution, more texture resolution,more ops for shaders, more objects on screen, fewer artefacts - if I need a 10 minute DF video with comparison shots to illustrate the differences to me it's basically wasted, unlike the leaps from 8-bit to 16-bit, then 16-bit to 32-bit, then 32-bit to 64-bit/3D, PlayStation to PS2, and PS2 to PS3. They were sodding great graphical leaps.

That said, there is Dreams. I do expect Dreams to wow with its tech.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Dreams wows now, but it's been years in development, so at release, it can't wow, because I've already been wowed. To quote the OP...

What games impressed you the most when released from a graphical and/or technical point.

Although there is potential for great artistic use of the tools to do impressive stuff, so I may yet be wowed by some creations.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Dreams wows now, but it's been years in development, so at release, it can't wow, because I've already been wowed. To quote the OP...

I have this mental wow-filter that prevents my braining from experiencing the promise-of-the-wow until the wow can be experienced by me. The best I get from videos is "that looks impressive, let's see what is actually delivered". All of the games I listed above delivered on the wow(tm) but where my brain was dubious beforehand apart from Tomb Raider which I'd not been aware of before I saw it in that GAME store one day. I couldn't really afford a PlayStation but I bought one. I still remember running toward the counter and, probably shouting, "WHAT IS THAT?" pointing to the screen.

The price for my insta-purchase was living off off Pot Noodles for about a month. And Lara thinks she made sacrifices!

Oh one more wow. PSVR, or as I like to call it, PlayStation Hat . Because VR is still fuckingwow(tm) when done right.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yeah, VR will have wow. As I'm arguing with eastmen in the VR forum at the moment, that wow is a spent force now and future VR iterations aren't going to generate the buzz because the delta between the new experiences and what's experienced before just isn't enough. That's kinda the way for modern gaming. In Ye Olden Days, going from blocks to identifiable sprites, and then to richly coloured worlds, and then 3D, and then 3D you could actually see without it wobbling or smearing over the screen, was all amazing. Each advance pushed into the unknown. Until someone produces something that can beam experiences into your brain, I don't think we'll ever be able to capture that again. Tech has moved so fast that our look-ahead is lightyears into the future. We've seen everything plausibly possibly in sci-fi movies already. Predictions in movies from the 50s to 90s were laughably out of touch with what was going to happen from 2000 onwards, but everything since - the cleanliness, virtual displays, 3D imaging, etc, is all on the cards and realistically previewed. So when a game finally looks photorealistic, I won't go 'wow'. I'll say, "ah, they've finally done it. Well done."

What can make one go wow is relative achievements. Some of the modern titles created on Spectrum-level hardware, etc. If a game appeared that was clearly way advanced of everything else of its era thanks to some new tech, that'd wow.

 

[Nesh]

No, the PS2, Xbox, DC, PS1, Saturn, and even SNES can do all of that with dedicated sound hardware. It's designed to have no impact on the main CPU. None of them have an actual synthesizer like the genesis, nes, and earlier consoles, but they all can play sequenced samples. In the case of the SNES that's the only way it can generate sound (other than pseudo-random noise), and the PS1 and PS2 sound systems descended from that one.

What do you mean they descented from that one? Arent all consoles using similar sound capabilities? Did the PS1 and PS2 have something more in common to SNES than the rest?

 

[dogen]

What do you mean they descented from that one? Arent all consoles using similar sound capabilities? Did the PS1 and PS2 have something more in common to SNES than the rest?

Well, Ken Kutaragi designed the SNES APU, and the PS1 used the same sample compression format, so I imagine they're probably similar internally. From there, I think the PS2 just scaled that design up.

 

[Nesh]

Well, Ken Kutaragi designed the SNES APU, and the PS1 used the same compression format, so I'm pretty sure they're probably similar internally. From there, I think the PS2 just scaled that design up.

Curious to know how the PS1 and PS2 was different from the rest because of that.

 

[Cyan]

welcome to the forums.

Games that I have enjoyed, still play occasionally, and believe that has defined gaming in one way or another.

(....)

some of the ones you listed are games that I also have in my list. I'd say:

- Doom.
- Quake.
- Unreal.
- Sonic.​

- Magician Lord Neo Geo.​

- The Need for Speed.​

- Street Fighter 2 SNES.​

- Super Probotector SNES.​

- Thunderforce IV Megadrive.​

- Streets of Rage 2 Megadrive.​

- FIFA International Soccer Megadrive.​

- Age of Empires (not technically impressive but loved the art style sooo much).
- Soul Blade (Playstation).​

- Doom 3 Xbox.​

- PGR2.
- Burnout 3: Takedown.
- Oblivion.
- Skyrim.
- Gears of War 1.
- Crysis.
- Broken Sword 1 and 2. (great art style)
- Call of Juarez, an engine with so many cool effects.
- Life is Strange (honorable mention, 'cos of the original story, although not groundbreaking).​

 

[dogen]

Curious to know how the PS1 and PS2 was different from the rest because of that.

Ultimately not that different I don't think. Saturn played cd audio or sequenced music, just without hardware decompression.