IMG confirm that Intel is using SGX

Discussion in 'Mobile Industry' started by tangey, Apr 2, 2008.

  1. tangey

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    The Poulsbo chipset , now known post-IDF as the System Controller Hub (SCH), is confirmed as having SGX in it, as well as video related IMG IP.

    http://www.imgtec.com/News/Release/index.asp?NewsID=712


    Technical documents at intel show that Intel are releasing 3 SCH chips, UL11L has graphics clocked at 100Mhz and is limited to 800x480 internal screen only, UL15L and UL15W are clocking the graphics at 200Mhz and support internal & external screens and full HD video.


    AS UMPC and MID are handheld devices, I've put this post in here, please move if inappropriate.
     
  2. darkblu

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    that's a very good news. thanks for the heads-up.
     
  3. tangey

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    The following video pretty much confirms that that SGX will also be in Canmore Soc.


    Heres a video of a presentation on Socs at the recent Intel IDF. Forward to around 17:30 and you'll hear the Intel guy (in relation to canmore) "...contains 3rd Party IP blocks providing audio/video encoding and graphics and display engines".

    http://www.intel.com/pressroom/kits/events/idfspr_2008/video.htm#
    Anyone know of a 3rd Party Graphics IP supplier to Intel other than IMG ?


    Given that Intel are heavily promoting the idea of re-usable IP in Socs as a way to quickly produce variations of chips for specific markets, this would also mean that it is likely that IMG IP will be used in the Moorestown platform, and even gives an outside possibilty that it'll make an appearance in the graphics enabled variant of Nehelam that will be coming out next year.
     
  4. Scali

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  5. tangey

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    Intel at this weeks IDF confirmed that their IA Soc, the CE3100 (formerly known as Canmore) contains the same SGX graphics core as found in Poulsbo. Its actually clocked a little higher @ 216Mhz.
    I'm not sure at this time if the CE3100 also contains IMG's video IP, VXD370.

    I know that the canmore chip isn't for handheld, butI didnt want to open up another IMG thread.
    http://download.intel.com/design/celect/downloads/ce3100-datasheet.pdf

    look at page 1.2 for the SGX mention.
     
  6. tangey

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    Intel has started to talk about the graphics and video tech in the moorestown platform.

    http://macnewsupdate.com/intel-mid-market-was-established-by-the-iphone-continues-to-grow/

    Highlights are:-
    1)The GPU is going to be about the same size as the CPU core
    2)code and decode high-definition TV (HDTV) imagery.
    3)The volume of data being handled has increased significantly, and we had to expand the memory bandwidth
    4)it will deliver improved graphics draw and image processing performance

    Interesting that one of the mentioned requirements is increased data bandwidth, in that the latest SGX531 core (remembering that SGX530 is in the menlow platform) announced in Oct was specifically aimed at:-

    "emerging trends in higher performance SoCs (Systems on Chip) that incorporate 128-bit or other higher data throughput bus fabrics."

    So it looks very likely to me that SGX531 is for moorestown
     
    #6 tangey, Dec 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2008
  7. Mike11

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    Well, but just for the MID/UMPC Moorestown Atom!? The Netbook and Nettop variant will get something else (Intel's own IP?)?

    Interesting interview. So, MIDs will dominate the world and the iPhone is an MID according to Intel. In that case IMHO he might be right with the domination part but I really don't see the need for Intel (and Windows) in that 4" MID world. 8 inch or bigger ok. But in the all-in-one, the one device that I always-carry-around-with-me-world? No.
     
  8. tangey

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    The article was addressing the MID market,and Intel's chipset for that market. The Intel guy does say that he doesn't think its necessary to distinguish between MIDs and netbooks. But does that mean the subsequent mention of Moorestown implies it could be seen in netbooks ?...dunno.
     
  9. Lazy8s

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    Intel's SCH used the SGX535 specifically, so I don't think they'd use what looks like a variant of the embedded-focused SGX530, the 531 variant, for Lincroft.
     
  10. roninja

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  11. Ailuros

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  12. Mike11

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    #12 Mike11, Jan 3, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 3, 2009
  13. tangey

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    Speculation is mounting that Intel's Pineview Soc (part of the Pinetrail platform for notebooks), will integrate a GMA500 style (i.e. SGX) graphics, and not GMA950 graphics (Which was previously using for netbooks along with the N atom series)

    http://www.netbookchoice.com/2009/0...el-‘pineview’-atom-n400-d400-d500-processors/

    That info is not official Intel stuff, but a summation of info received by hkepc.com

    The official line from intel can be seen in this .pdf:-
    http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/reference/Pineview_Moblin_disclosure.pdf

    All that says on page 6 is that there will be "increased graphics performance". Yet it is common knowledge that GMA500 on the Zseries Atoms has consistently performed worse than the 950 graphics using in the G945 chipset (for the N series Atoms)

    Now the info from the first link above,and also various other sources, are stating that the graphics will run at 200MHz. Thats the same clock speed at the GMA500 currently runs on most versions of Intels SCH chip. So if thats the case, where is the performance increase coming from ? Other than the improvement in having the processor and the graphics on the same die, there isn't one ? Is Intel merely stating that in thier opinion GMA500 is better than GMA950, and that the actual poor performance to date of GMA500 is down to driver issues ?

    Another site today stirred the story more.....
    http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2009/06/14/4224804.htm
    THis site states "the graphics chip Intel is said to be planning to pair with the upcoming Atom CPUs will only be slightly faster than its existing one".

    Now I'm not sure what they are comparing too, but I'm assuming its the existing GMA950 being using in existing netbook platform. It goes on to say

    "The upcoming Pineview Atom N450 will reportedly be paired with Intel's GMA 500 graphics chip. The GMA 500 will run at a faster clock speed and double the number of graphics "pipelines" to four. But it will still run at half the speed of Nvidia's 9400M chip and boast only a quarter of its graphic pipelines.", and quotes Jon Peddie as saying,The GMA 500 is "indeed better than the old 945," .

    Again, I feel that the "faster clock" is relative to the 133Mhz that the existing netbook chipset graphics runs out. Can anyone confirm the number of "pipes" that SGX535 has ?

    I wonder if we might see SGX540 in pineview, at 200MHZ it should provide a good performance increase over SGX545, and given that SGX540 taped out in Oct '08, the timing would be about right ?

    To confuse the situation even more, the last link says that "For consumers demanding HD video, Intel reportedly plans to offer Broadcom Corp.'s Crystal HD video decoder chip as an optional add-on."

    And yet we know that one of the main strengths of poulsbos GMA500 over the existing N-series graphics is its video decode ability, GMA500 can decode 1080p in hardware. So if its GMA500 that is being put into pineview, why the need for an optional separate HD decode chip ? Here's another separate article which would seem to confirm the optional separate HD decode chip:-

    http://apcmag.com/intels-next-gen-atom-platform-gets-hd-decoder-chip.htm

    Its all very confusing
     
    #13 tangey, Jun 16, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 16, 2009
  14. Lazy8s

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    Two "pipelines" for SGX53x; four for SGX54x.
     
  15. iwod

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    If it is really SGX, then even if it perform worst then GMA950 i will still be happy. Intel Gfx is the worst i have seen possibly in the whole Graphics History.

    I am still puzzled by why Intel need YET ANOTHER chip for decoding when the newest Atom was all about Integrating MORE Chips into its Core.

    The have PowerVR video decoder and they are not using it.
     
  16. Ailuros

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    http://www.mitrax.de/?cont=artikel&aid=35&page=4

    If someone could find out what the die area for the graphics core would be it would help defining which SGX variant it might be. If it's in the 8mm2@45nm league then the scale weighs more in 545's direction.

    If Intel truly integrates SGX also in that one, here's to hope that the finally deliver decent drivers this time. That alone would deliver a huge performance increase even for Poulsbo heh...
     
  17. tangey

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    Intel just bought a further 25M shares in IMG, bringing their stake from under 4% to just about 14%.

    Intel Corporation - No intention to make an offer for Imagination Technologies
    Group plc

    "Intel Corporation, through its wholly owned subsidiary Intel Capital
    Corporation, has acquired a further 25,000,000 shares in Imagination
    Technologies Group plc resulting in an aggregate holding of 31,970,422 shares in
    Imagination Technologies Group plc (including its existing holdings of 6,970,422
    shares held by its wholly owned subsidiaries Intel Capital (Cayman) Corporation
    and Intel Capital Corporation) representing 13.99% of Imagination Technologies
    Group plc's total issued voting rights.

    Intel Corporation has already licensed several generations of Imagination
    Technologies Group plc's graphics and video IP cores for deployment in Intel's
    PC, mobile computing and consumer architectures. Intel Corporation values its
    continued relationship with Imagination Technologies Group plc and the use of
    Imagination's technologies by an industry-wide customer base.

    Intel Corporation has acquired these additional shares for strategic reasons.
    Whilst Intel Corporation will continue to consider its options in relation to
    its holding in Imagination Technologies Group plc, for the purposes of Rule 2.8
    of the City Code on Takeovers and Mergers (the "City Code"), it confirms that it
    has no current intention to make an offer for Imagination Technologies Group
    plc."



    This is a unique situation, IMGs biggest shareholder Saad are "distressed" and need to offload. They had been holding just under 42M shares.

    I fully expect Apple to now take some of the remaining Saad shares.
     
  18. Ailuros

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    It could very well be that Intel just gives (like themselves in the past and Apple with their own share investment) additional resources to IMG to be able to keep up with increasing R&D resources. It could thus mean that Intel plans a wider than current employment of IMG's IP in their SoCs.
     
  19. tangey

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    Not quite sure what you mean, the shares were not bought from IMG, or issued by IMG as part of an agreement, they were bought from an Saudi investment house thats in big trouble and needs to offload its entire portfolio. Intel got the shares at 80p, which is 10-15% discount to the market price at the time. IMG got nothing.
     
  20. iwod

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    They are only 350M + right now, Intel could buy them in a snap.
    I am not sure why Apple didn't acquire those stocks though. It seems to be Apple is very conservative with its pile of cash.
     
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